Class 707 to Southeastern Dates

[Chiltern006]

the more unreliable 465/2s will go first into storage.

 

[ComUtoR]

the more unreliable 465/2s will go first into storage.

Do you have a source for that ?

 

[Class 466]

the more unreliable 465/2s will go first into storage.

Not entirely sure 465/2s as an entire subclass are any more or less reliable than any of the other subclasses (especially the identical 465/9s).

Wait and see is probably the best bet.

 

[Roast Veg]

The case against the 465/2s is not very good, and only slightly better than the 466s. They're Angel owned (as are the 465/9s and 466s) so it requires no ROSCO cooperation to handle leasing arrangements, the brake pads need changing far more often than their /0 and /1 counterparts, and losing them wouldn't impact outer suburban routes like the loss of the 465/9s would.

 

[Mikey C]

The 465/2 are certainly the smallest 465 subclass (16 4 car units). It also feels that they were left behind, as the other 465/2s were heavily overhauled inside to make the 465/9s, while the BREL units had major mechanical changes made to them

 

[Class 466]

The case against the 465/2s is not very good, and only slightly better than the 466s. They're Angel owned (as are the 465/9s and 466s) so it requires no ROSCO cooperation to handle leasing arrangements, the brake pads need changing far more often than their /0 and /1 counterparts, and losing them wouldn't impact outer suburban routes like the loss of the 465/9s would.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a mixture of /2s & /9s based on maintenance requirements given there are a lot of metro only 465/9 diagrams now that they don’t work anything on the Maidstone East Line and some of their Chatham Mainline work was cut back when the 377s came in. I think it’s a given that a number of 466s will go though, they’re the least PRM compliant and full of water! (Well most Met cams are thanks to the shoddy panel build quality from what became AnsaldoBreda).

 

[43066]

707006 is out on test/driver training today - Currently working 5Q59 10+33 Grove Park C.S.D. to London Cannon Street: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/J32703/2021-03-23/detailed

I went past this yesterday - very strange to see a 707 on SE metals! No doubt it will become a very familiar sight in due course.

 

[Roast Veg]

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a mixture of /2s & /9s based on maintenance requirements given there are a lot of metro only 465/9 diagrams now that they don’t work anything on the Maidstone East Line and some of their Chatham Mainline work was cut back when the 377s came in. I think it’s a given that a number of 466s will go though, they’re the least PRM compliant and full of water! (Well most Met cams are thanks to the shoddy panel build quality from what became AnsaldoBreda).

I hadn't appreciated that the 377/5s had taken on some duties previously handled by 465/9s, but it makes sense.

 

[Class 466]

707003 & 004 worked Wednesdays 5Qxx test runs between Sevenoaks & New Cross (having come ECS from Ashford first thing) and have now berthed at Grove Park CSD. This means there are no longer any 707s in Ashford. Expect a ramping up of the training runs now.

 

[Chiltern006]

707007 and 008 due over (provisionally) on the 3rd April

 

[Bigfoot]

SE were running over the flyover into Waterloo and shunting at queenstown road last week, might this have a link with Se drivers moving 707s as they are moved over?

 

[swt_passenger]

SE were running over the flyover into Waterloo and shunting at queenstown road last week, might this have a link with Se drivers moving 707s as they are moved over?

That’s how it was explained in a few posts last Saturday, but it was unusually brought up in the general Real Time Trains discussion thread...

 

[ScotGG]

It'd be a shame if the /9s go in terms of ambience and attracting discretionary travellers. Even ignoring first class, it's so much brighter and more pleasant onboard due to the colour scheme and brightness of materials such as flooring. This sort of thing doesn't matter for commuter traffic - but for leisure an appealing on board experience does matter. Most of the rest of the networkers are so drab and often dirty - which bizarrely despite the lighter materials doesn't appear to impact the /9s to any greater degree.

I know this is not a factor in any cascade/scrapping decision, but I do wish Networkers had a refurb to make them more pleasant - or at least the opportunity taken over recent years.

465/9 interior = https://www.flickr.com/photos/13209...hotolist-ibKFrC-W6DpNY-25TaCSb-oTKQsE-21BWhZz

Normal networker interior = https://www.flickr.com/photos/josht...hotolist-ibKFrC-W6DpNY-25TaCSb-oTKQsE-21BWhZz

 

[Class 466]

It would be nice to think that once the 707s have settled in and a final number of networkers staying is decided on, that they and the 376s could get a refresh (seen as they won't be going anywhere for a number of years). I know that wont happen however much I'd like it!

 

[FR510]

There was a 707 in Gillingham EMUD today in front of a 395 with its nose cone raised. Looked like they were testing coupling compatabilty?

 

[Chiltern006]

there being reliveried there so, you never know, but we may see a blue 707....

 

[Class 466]

there being reliveried there so, you never know, but we may see a blue 707....

It was testing emergency coupling procedures and went back to Grove Park afterwards.

 

[Chiltern006]

oh lol

 

[ComUtoR]

there being reliveried there so, you never know, but we may see a blue 707....

About 5 weeks till the first blue one appears.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Mar 2021 ==

Expect a ramping up of the training runs now.

Driver training doesn't begin for a few months.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Mar 2021 ==

... and have now berthed at Grove Park CSD.

Not for long...

 

[CarrotPie]

It was testing emergency coupling procedures and went back to Grove Park afterwards.

Emergency coupling procedures or are they going to provide extra capacity on HS1?

 

[Aictos]

Emergency coupling procedures or are they going to provide extra capacity on HS1?

Considering that there are parts of the Classic SE network that the Class 395s operate over eg Gravesend and the high probability that you will see Class 707s over the same parts of the network, I would say it's essential to ensure that emergency coupling procedures can be done.

Additional capacity on HS1 will only happen if a second batch of Class 395s are available.

 

[Chiltern006]

Anyone know if any tests are running tomorrow? Cheers

 

[Class 466]

Anyone know if any tests are running tomorrow? Cheers

None in the system currently.

 

[ComUtoR]

None in the system currently.

Maybe you're looking in the wrong place

 

[Class 466]

Some 5Zxx ran today between Herne Hill and Waterloo (Driver Training for future 707 transfers)

Realtime Trains | Departures from London Waterloo between 0200 and 0159 on 27/03/2021

Train information at London Waterloo between 0200 and 0159 on 27/03/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

Given how long it's likely to be before SWR release a significant proportion on the fleet I imagine there won't be any major driver training taking place just yet.

 

[ComUtoR]

Given how long it's likely to be before SWR release a significant proportion on the fleet I imagine there won't be any major driver training taking place just yet.

It only takes 2 units to carry out Driver training and SE has 4 with a other 2 due to arrive on the 3rd.

Driver training isn't due for a few months but that is because others are being trained first and service doesn't begin until... Drivers need to be trained as the units enter service so there is less of a gap between training and driving them.

 

[Goldfish62]

It only takes 2 units to carry out Driver training and SE has 4 with a other 2 due to arrive on the 3rd.

Driver training isn't due for a few months but that is because others are being trained first and service doesn't begin until... Drivers need to be trained as the units enter service so there is less of a gap between training and driving them.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Class 466]

It only takes 2 units to carry out Driver training and SE has 4 with a other 2 due to arrive on the 3rd.

Driver training isn't due for a few months but that is because others are being trained first and service doesn't begin until... Drivers need to be trained as the units enter service so there is less of a gap between training and driving them.

Be interesting to see which depot the next arrivals go to on the 3rd, what with Grove Park being in the middle of a possession

 

[brad465]

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a mixture of /2s & /9s based on maintenance requirements given there are a lot of metro only 465/9 diagrams now that they don’t work anything on the Maidstone East Line and some of their Chatham Mainline work was cut back when the 377s came in. I think it’s a given that a number of 466s will go though, they’re the least PRM compliant and full of water! (Well most Met cams are thanks to the shoddy panel build quality from what became AnsaldoBreda).

Do we know yet if there will be a net gain in carriages or if the number of Networker carriages leaving is equal to the number of 707s arriving? Given how stretched the whole SE fleet has been and Chart Leacon reopening works allowing some stabling capacity increase, having a net gain makes sense.

While the outcome doesn't sound decided, all the 466s going but nothing more with them would be a net gain of 64 once all 707s arrive, which would allow 10 car needs to be covered by 707s and 376s, with 465s previously involved in 10 car workings going to make more 8 cars from previously 6 car formations, and potentially more 12 car formations where permitted.