Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[samuelmorris]

Whenever I saw Norwich passengers complain about having to travel on a 321 my immediate reaction was think about all the people who have to travel on them every day. They now have extremely nice 745’s and yet GE passengers are still stuck with 321’s for a while yet. There is some snobbery that comes from the North end of the network at times.

Well, the longer you travel for, the higher your expectations of the travelling environment should be. Other than on a very hot day I was content with unrefurbished 321s for my <25 minute (usually!) journeys to Shenfield, though that's not to say I don't appreciate something nicer. 1h50 on them is another story, however.

 

[Grumbler]

Well, the longer you travel for, the higher your expectations of the travelling environment should be. Other than on a very hot day I was content with unrefurbished 321s for my <25 minute (usually!) journeys to Shenfield, though that's not to say I don't appreciate something nicer. 1h50 on them is another story, however.

When I were a lad we had to travel in open trucks on wooden benches. There were no windows and no roofing. We were pleased because we only had to pay one old penny per mile.

 

[GW43125]

I think there's two diagrams, but they're consecutive ones so half an hour apart. I think one of them includes the 17.39 from Liverpool Street as I saw one on that on Monday last week, but I can't remember if it's the first or the second diagram.

It'll be the first, had one on the 18:09 last week.
Hope this helps.

 

[StephenHunter]

I would happily take a 321 over a 315 any day to get into Central London.

 

[DorkingMain]

A question not necessarily specific to the 745s - do they and other bi-mode units have bells or buzzers? Obviously traditionally electrics got bells and diesels got buzzers.

 

[samuelmorris]

I would happily take a 321 over a 315 any day to get into Central London.

I only would for the speed of the services the former operate. As far as comfort is concerned, there's not a lot in it for me. I anticipate 720s to hopefully be superior to both.

 

[Mordac]

When I were a lad we had to travel in open trucks on wooden benches. There were no windows and no roofing. We were pleased because we only had to pay one old penny per mile.

You had benches? Luxury! We had to stand the whole way and jump out to push the train when it failed.

 

[TheEdge]

A question not necessarily specific to the 745s - do they and other bi-mode units have bells or buzzers? Obviously traditionally electrics got bells and diesels got buzzers.

Just a plain old buzzer.

 

[ashkeba]

Whenever I saw Norwich passengers complain about having to travel on a 321 my immediate reaction was think about all the people who have to travel on them every day. They now have extremely nice 745’s and yet GE passengers are still stuck with 321’s for a while yet. There is some snobbery that comes from the North end of the network at times.

Yes but the West is looked down on by both North and East so we're given 745/1 and 720 which don't even have first class. Of course no-one willing to pay for first class travels from the city of London to the slums of Cambridge or the budget international airport, so GA aren't missing any revenue this way!

 

[samuelmorris]

If there was a first class offering from Cambridge I'd be complaining about it'd be that to Kings Cross - that arguably is the service that should have proper first class provision. An airport stopping service to an airport not as well traveled by business bigwigs as its other London counterparts probably doesn't justify one either. Ideally, an airport train would have all the space it can get. A fixed formation 12-car train with no first class and reduced table provision seems about right in that regard to me. That said units end up on Norwich services is of course another matter.

 

[CBlue]

If there was a first class offering from Cambridge I'd be complaining about it'd be that to Kings Cross - that arguably is the service that should have proper first class provision. An airport stopping service to an airport not as well traveled by business bigwigs as its other London counterparts probably doesn't justify one either. Ideally, an airport train would have all the space it can get. A fixed formation 12-car train with no first class and reduced table provision seems about right in that regard to me. That said units end up on Norwich services is of course another matter.

Is it really worth providing first class provision for a journey as short as 45 minutes Cambridge - Kings Cross? Even more so when you consider the Class 387s in use have the same seats in first as everywhere else, with the difference being a bit of cloth attached to the seatback!

After the times I've been crammed onto an overheated 317 for 90 minutes with a fantastic view of the totally empty first class section, I have no issue with the 720s providing more capacity and a under-used, space wasting section being removed.


As far as provision on Norwich - Liv St goes...is 1 hr 50 mins really that long on a 321 or 720? Bear in mind that similarly equipped 317's were and still are common on the 2 hour 08 minute journey from Liverpool St to Kings Lynn, yet I don't see arguments for 745s on that service.

 

[samuelmorris]

Is it really worth providing first class provision for a journey as short as 45 minutes Cambridge - Kings Cross? Even more so when you consider the Class 387s in use have the same seats in first as everywhere else, with the difference being a bit of cloth attached to the seatback!

Exactly my point - if you wanted first class to Cambridge you should complain to Great Northern about why theirs is so mediocre. If you're travelling from Cambridge to London and wanted a premier travelling experience I can't believe you'd take a service that takes 40% longer for the sake of a nicer travelling environment. I suppose it's passengers between Audley End and Shelford that get the raw deal for travelling >60 mins in standard only accommodation.

No, I don't necessarily think Norwich demands first class either, but the route carries a certain service provision that will become a total gamble as /1 and /0 units intermingle.

 

[Ianno87]

If there was a first class offering from Cambridge I'd be complaining about it'd be that to Kings Cross - that arguably is the service that should have proper first class provision. An airport stopping service to an airport not as well traveled by business bigwigs as its other London counterparts probably doesn't justify one either. Ideally, an airport train would have all the space it can get. A fixed formation 12-car train with no first class and reduced table provision seems about right in that regard to me. That said units end up on Norwich services is of course another matter.

Exactly my point - if you wanted first class to Cambridge you should complain to Great Northern about why theirs is so mediocre. If you're travelling from Cambridge to London and wanted a premier travelling experience I can't believe you'd take a service that takes 40% longer for the sake of a nicer travelling environment. I suppose it's passengers between Audley End and Shelford that get the raw deal for travelling >60 mins in standard only accommodation.

No, I don't necessarily think Norwich demands first class either, but the route carries a certain service provision that will become a total gamble as /1 and /0 units intermingle.

To my observations, take-up of First Class on the King's Cross service has diminished since 387s took over from the 365s. Both the relatively poor seat comfort, but also it's no longer the 'nearest the buffers at King's Cross' convenience it once was (although it is nearer the exit at Cambridge and Ely).

My reckon most of the take up is folks with First Class tickets to further afield (e.g. carrying on in 'proper' first class on GWR from Paddington etc.).

 

[Bikeman78]

To my observations, take-up of First Class on the King's Cross service has diminished since 387s took over from the 365s. Both the relatively poor seat comfort, but also it's no longer the 'nearest the buffers at King's Cross' convenience it once was (although it is nearer the exit at Cambridge and Ely).

My reckon most of the take up is folks with First Class tickets to further afield (e.g. carrying on in 'proper' first class on GWR from Paddington etc.).

I take it that the 387s aren't all the same way round then? Presumably they arrived from Thameslink all mixed up. As you say, the 317s and 365s were nearly always the same way round. Occasionally one got turned if it took different routes to and from Ilford for overhaul.

 

[samuelmorris]

That's probably true, and (though off-topic) I'd say the closest to the exit position probably makes more of a difference than the quality of First Class - a large volume of regular travellers do this.

 

[Taylorgb19]

Last week I went on declassified first class from meridian water on the 379 and the reclining seating was comfy idk why they don’t carry them on the 745 first

 

[Huntergreed]

On one of these now. Pretty impressed overall, nice ambience and travel environment, good service enough window size. Seats however are quite hard (expected on new stock I suppose) and I do find the lack of a table in the facing sets of seats quite frustrating, the seat next to me is cluttered with my tickets, my belongings and my coat, it does seem like a table would be helpful/beneficial/sensible.

 

[Rick1984]

A small red barrier tape not unlike a rope queue barrier can be pulled across between coaches. If the great British public would pay it any attention however...

Cheers, good to know I didn't imagine it

 

[170TurboFan]

A question not necessarily specific to the 745s - do they and other bi-mode units have bells or buzzers? Obviously traditionally electrics got bells and diesels got buzzers.

The 745s and 755s have buzzers not bells.

 

[ashkeba]

To my observations, take-up of First Class on the King's Cross service has diminished since 387s took over from the 365s. Both the relatively poor seat comfort, but also it's no longer the 'nearest the buffers at King's Cross' convenience it once was (although it is nearer the exit at Cambridge and Ely).

The only reason there's any First on any London-Cambridge route are certain passengers who continue to King's Lynn and exit through a side gate with a gold crest above - which coincidentally the First compartment usually stops near!

I think GN can be excused poor First on expresses as it is a commuter line, but GA are an Intercity-capable operator apparently trying their hardest to avoid offering First on services that don't visit a certain city beginning with N by specifying 745/1s without it.

 

[Grumbler]

I used these for the first time yesterday, on a day trip from Norwich to Felixstowe via Ipswich. The outward journey was on a 745/0, the return on a 745/1, and they ran perfectly to time, as did the 755/3 on the Felixstowe branch. I like them very much, though the outsides were rather grubby - they could do with a wash more frequently. A serious point is that to get out of some of the seating bays into the cetral aisle requires stepping down, which is easy to miss - perhaps a warning sign on those seats would help?
A question - how will seat reservations work on services operated by the 745/1s which do not have the carriages labelled as the 745/0s do?

 

[dk1]

I used these for the first time yesterday, on a day trip from Norwich to Felixstowe via Ipswich. The outward journey was on a 745/0, the return on a 745/1, and they ran perfectly to time, as did the 755/3 on the Felixstowe branch. I like them very much, though the outsides were rather grubby - they could do with a wash more frequently. A serious point is that to get out of some of the seating bays into the cetral aisle requires stepping down, which is easy to miss - perhaps a warning sign on those seats would help?
A question - how will seat reservations work on services operated by the 745/1s which do not have the carriages labelled as the 745/0s do?

They will all be grubby for another couple of months. The wash plant is being completely rebuilt at Crown Point. It currently has no track or foundations. Hand bashing taking place but only the odd unit each day.

 

[Class455]

Apologies if I’ve missed something here but I’ve just seen a Class 745 at Hornsey Depot. Any idea what unit it was and what it was doing? I didn’t realise GN carried out maintenance on the FLIRT’s...

 

[Domh245]

Apologies if I’ve missed something here but I’ve just seen a Class 745 at Hornsey Depot. Any idea what unit it was and what it was doing? I didn’t realise GN carried out maintenance on the FLIRT’s...

Visiting Hornsey's wheel lathe. I can't remember if it's a permanent arrangement or if one is being installed at Crown Point.

 

[dk1]

Visiting Hornsey's wheel lathe. I can't remember if it's a permanent arrangement or if one is being installed at Crown Point.

Could be Clacton, Crown Point or possibly Parkeston. Jury still out last I heard.

 

[Stortford soul]

Sept 8th.
Had my first trip on a 745/1 - 745108 10.39 from Bishop's Stortford to LST. Train virtually empty. Generally impressed with stock but very disappointed that the facing seats do not have tables as the 379s do. I am a cyclist and the dedicated bike provision is very good. However a couple of points indicating software inadequacies. The Stortford station indicator board display of the stock showed the places for the bikes all at the rear of the train when they are not. Even worse the on-board train display (see photo) showed the train as if it were a 745/0 with a buffet and First Class seating. I mentioned this to the driver who seemed unaware of it.
I returned on the 16:54 from LST to Stortford on 745107 and the on-board train was likewise wrongly indicating a buffet and First class seats.

 

[86246]

Sept 8th.
Had my first trip on a 745/1 - 745108 10.39 from Bishop's Stortford to LST. Train virtually empty. Generally impressed with stock but very disappointed that the facing seats do not have tables as the 379s do. I am a cyclist and the dedicated bike provision is very good. However a couple of points indicating software inadequacies. The Stortford station indicator board display of the stock showed the places for the bikes all at the rear of the train when they are not. Even worse the on-board train display (see photo) showed the train as if it were a 745/0 with a buffet and First Class seating. I mentioned this to the driver who seemed unaware of it.
I returned on the 16:54 from LST to Stortford on 745107 and the on-board train was likewise wrongly indicating a buffet and First class seats.

I seem to end up travelling more often on a 745/1 than a 745/0 on the east side. The first few I travelled on since the public transport travel retrictions were lifted had first class and buffet displayed as per that picture. Although recently they have been corrected so perhaps it still needs to be applied to the whole of the 745/1.

 

[73128]

But Norwich is a 4 hour round trip so that will require 8 diagrams to provide a 2tph service. Without significant reliability improvements it isn't going to happen.

plus the Norwich in 90 two return trips diagram

 

[dk1]

plus the Norwich in 90 two return trips diagram

2tph currently takes 10 sets. Ni90 are extra as is the 06:24/18:10.

Round trip is 5hrs.

 

[Spet0789]

Travelling for the first time on a 745/1.

I imagine that the tables were removed to make more space for luggage but a small side table for a drink would have been a big improvement?

Overall, a bit disappointed.