Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[JonathanH]

Oh right that's good to know be.
I doubt you'll be able to tell any real difference in a Stansted unit as a casual traveller

Doesn't that depend on which carriage you board in? Clearly 80% of the train is the same but the rest isn't.

 

[86246]

That is what I thought about the Cafe Bar as the government advice is to avoid eating and drinking on public transport where possible.

 

[dk1]

Oh right that's good to know be.
I doubt you'll be able to tell any real difference in a Stansted unit as a casual traveller

Tables.

 

[trebor79]

Oh right that's good to know be.
I doubt you'll be able to tell any real difference in a Stansted unit as a casual traveller

Tables.

Indeed. I was pleasantly surprised at the table provision in the Intercity units the couple of times I got to sample them before lockdown. The scramble to bag a table seat to get some work done will be considerably less fraught!

 

[dk1]

Indeed. I was pleasantly surprised at the table provision in the Intercity units the couple of times I got to sample them before lockdown. The scramble to bag a table seat to get some work done will be considerably less fraught!

A lot of thought seems to have gone into the seating layout. It's just a surprise when you first board a Stansted Express unit to find them completely devoid of tables. I'm not sure they will be so popular with commuters on weekday services such as the 05:00 & 05:30 up.

 

[Rick1984]

Is that becuse they expect more local commuters on the Stansted units?

 

[JonathanH]

Is that becuse they expect more local commuters on the Stansted units?

Allows people to sit with their luggage by their feet instead of putting it in a rack.

 

[Pacerman99]

I think the Stanstead units have more bike areas and luggage racks. If they were the same as the intercity units barring the first class they would have more that the quoted 722 seats? Does anyone have a carriage by carriage breakdown of how many seats are in a Stansted unit?

 

[trebor79]

A lot of thought seems to have gone into the seating layout. It's just a surprise when you first board a Stansted Express unit to find them completely devoid of tables. I'm not sure they will be so popular with commuters on weekday services such as the 05:00 & 05:30 up.

Yes they are all in all very pleasant units and just about perfect for the route they serve. I need to sample first class when normality returns.

 

[Rick1984]

Why do the 745 feel so fast? Definitely the greatest sense of speed I've experienced of any train.

 

[Dave1987]

Why do the 745 feel so fast? Definitely the greatest sense of speed I've experienced of any train.

745's cannot hold a candle to 755/3's in AC power mode. I am reliably informed that the 755/3 in AC mode is the most powerful train in the country.

 

[trebor79]

Why do the 745 feel so fast? Definitely the greatest sense of speed I've experienced of any train.

The low floor and hence lower eye level must have something to do with it. Also they are quite nippy units.
Try a 3 car 755 on electric. They are insane!

 

[Rick1984]

A 755 on the GEML would be interesting. I've only experienced them on the Yarmouth and Cambridge to Norwich lines, though you can still get a feel for there performance

I did think about the low floor I head for the the raised seats but they're probably still quite a bit lower than a more conventional design

 

[Dave1987]

A 755 on the GEML would be interesting. I've only experienced them on the Yarmouth and Cambridge to Norwich lines, though you can still get a feel for there performance

I did think about the low floor I head for the the raised seats but they're probably still quite a bit lower than a more conventional design

Norwich is not the only place that Stadlers operate out of. Ipswich - Cambridge and Ipswich/Colchester - Peterborough are now 755's 3 and 4 cars. They frequently accelerate from a standing start to 100mph on the AC and I can tell you now that 745's actually feel quite pedestrian to a 755/3 on AC.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Not forgetting Ipswich to Lowestoft, Ipswich to Felixstowe and Sudbury to Marks Tey

Edit: Sorry - misread and thought you were refering to operation as opposed to electric operation.

 

[samuelmorris]

They are not areas of electric operation, however, which is what was being alluded to I believe.

 

[F Great Eastern]

They are not areas of electric operation, however, which is what was being alluded to I believe.

True -that'll teach me to skim read!

 

[Rick1984]

I've been on a 755 from Cambridge to Ely but you don't really get a sense of what they can do on electric

 

[dk1]

I've been on a 755 from Cambridge to Ely but you don't really get a sense of what they can do on electric

Trouble is apart from a short stretch of 90mph on the down after Warerbeach it's only 75mph. Leaving Ely it's only 50mph. One of the best sections to notice acceleration is Cambridge North-Cambridge up road.

 

[delticdave]

Norwich is not the only place that Stadlers operate out of. Ipswich - Cambridge and Ipswich/Colchester - Peterborough are now 755's 3 and 4 cars. They frequently accelerate from a standing start to 100mph on the AC and I can tell you now that 745's actually feel quite pedestrian to a 755/3 on AC.

Since the 755/3's probably have the highest power to weight ratio of any UK EMU, that's not too surprising.... When running on their 2 diesel engines they're proba

 

[trebor79]

The 755/3s aren't too bad on diesel actually. They are nippier than what they replaced.

 

[Dave1987]

I've been on a 755 from Cambridge to Ely but you don't really get a sense of what they can do on electric

Get yourself to Stowmarket or Needham Market, get yourself on a Cambridge - Ipswich 755/3 on AC and then you will really feel the power of a 755/3 on AC compared to a 745. Honestly there is a noticeable difference in how much slower the acceleration of a 745 is compared to the 755/3 on AC.

 

[Dave1987]

Since the 755/3's probably have the highest power to weight ratio of any UK EMU, that's not too surprising.... When running on their 2 diesel engines they're proba

The acceleration of the 755/3’s on AC is absolutely insane on AC. 745’s are good but nowhere near a 755

 

[Rick1984]

None the less we had a wait at Stowmarket, a longer one at Ipswich and another at Colchester.
Definitely a quality product but I think the Mkiii just edge it on sense of occasion, Intercity feel.
But the FLIRTs feel like a really well put together unit. Only Desiro seem to have that same solid build quality

 

[Dave1987]

None the less we had a wait at Stowmarket, a longer one at Ipswich and another at Colchester.
Definitely a quality product but I think the Mkiii just edge it on sense of occasion, Intercity feel.
But the FLIRTs feel like a really well put together unit. Only Desiro seem to have that Dane solid build quality

I have heard a lot of people commenting/moaning that the 745 is just another EMU now and not “intercity“. But there is a very valid argument that London-Norwich is the loosest possible definition of an intercity route. It’s hardly London to Penzance or London to Edinburgh. I know lots of people would howl and scorn at that but the distance/time involved and the stations along the route are not major cities so it really is the loosest definition of an intercity route so the 745’s are a not needed to have that “intercity feel“. Its not like you are having a 3 hour journey on these things.

 

[trebor79]

None the less we had a wait at Stowmarket, a longer one at Ipswich and another at Colchester.
Definitely a quality product but I think the Mkiii just edge it on sense of occasion, Intercity feel.
But the FLIRTs feel like a really well put together unit. Only Desiro seem to have that same solid build quality

I have heard a lot of people commenting/moaning that the 745 is just another EMU now and not “intercity“. But there is a very valid argument that London-Norwich is the loosest possible definition of an intercity route. It’s hardly London to Penzance or London to Edinburgh. I know lots of people would howl and scorn at that but the distance/time involved and the stations along the route are not major cities so it really is the loosest definition of an intercity route so the 745’s are a not needed to have that “intercity feel“. Its not like you are having a 3 hour journey on these things.

Agree with both of these posts. The Mk3 definitely feels like a "proper train". Alas, most new trains are units these days and somehow that does make them less interesting and "special".
I suppose the lack of end vestibules etc makes it feel less like and intercity, but I actually quite like the way the interior is split up by the vestibules and wide gangways. It's like a series of large compartments.
But yes, a "proper train" had that je ne sais quot.

Edit - I do really like the 745s and pleased we got them rather than something else.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

They're about as intercity as a 800 or 390 surely? In honesty as said its barely 2 hour run from London to Norwich, but I do feel like GA went for the premium option with the 745's, could have just been more 720's or something like that.

 

[Bringback309s]

I have heard a lot of people commenting/moaning that the 745 is just another EMU now and not “intercity“. But there is a very valid argument that London-Norwich is the loosest possible definition of an intercity route. It’s hardly London to Penzance or London to Edinburgh. I know lots of people would howl and scorn at that but the distance/time involved and the stations along the route are not major cities so it really is the loosest definition of an intercity route so the 745’s are a not needed to have that “intercity feel“. Its not like you are having a 3 hour journey on these things.

It's funny isn't it, over the years we have slowly had most services go backwards in terms of comfort and traveling experience due to a rising population, legislation, health and safety and cost. The 745 to me would be a good unit for the Clacton line as a new generation 309. Norwich customers grumbled if they got a 309 instead of loco-hauled air-conditioned Mk2's! Then the uncomfortable 321's reached Clacton, Harwich and Ipswich, it seemed so wrong the "2+2 with a table side corridor first class" comfy 309's were replaced with such inferior stock, and there was an outcry. Then the 321's reached Norwich, give it 30 years and it will be 3+2 airline seating for three hour journeys and with the population getting larger!

 

[lord rathmore]

It's funny isn't it, over the years we have slowly had most services go backwards in terms of comfort and traveling experience due to a rising population, legislation, health and safety and cost. The 745 to me would be a good unit for the Clacton line as a new generation 309. Norwich customers grumbled if they got a 309 instead of loco-hauled air-conditioned Mk2's! Then the uncomfortable 321's reached Clacton, Harwich and Ipswich, it seemed so wrong the "2+2 with a table side corridor first class" comfy 309's were replaced with such inferior stock, and there was an outcry. Then the 321's reached Norwich, give it 30 years and it will be 3+2 airline seating for three hour journeys and with the population getting larger!

I cannot agree with your view on this. The mark 3 coaches were well past their prime, being noisy, tatty and with awkward fixed armrests and rediculous door-opening arrangement. I find 745s quiet, fast and quite comfortable enough for a 2 hour journey. FLIRTS operate similar services all over Switzerland and I've never had any complaints when over there.

 

[Energy]

I don't really understand people's issue with it not being 'intercity', they are similar to all other intercity stock in the UK apart from the door arrangements and low floor. Door arrangements shouldn't have this much affect, if anything the middle door is better because it breaks up the carriage and makes it feel less like being stuck in a metal tube as there is some space in the middle.