Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[Class 170101]

Ridiculous comment. They never have signed that route. Only Ipswich/Norwich drivers work the East Suffolk route anyway. I don't thing the franchise agreement is worth the paper it's printed on anymore.

And wasn't suggesting they should sign the East Suffolk. I said they should drive the Class 755s south of Ipswich to London like they did the Class 170s.

 

[Bald Rick]

And wasn't suggesting they should sign the East Suffolk. I said they should drive the Class 755s south of Ipswich to London like they did the Class 170s.

That would be a significant training and competence retention cost for a handful of trains a day. Well into six figures up front cost. Extremely inefficient, and unnecessary.

 

[dk1]

That would be a significant training and competence retention cost for a handful of trains a day. Well into six figures up front cost. Extremely inefficient, and unnecessary.

Took the words out of my mouth. It is just wasteful. Not having a go Class 170101 but it makes no business sense at all.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Surely the priority is to replace the life-expired and tatty 317's from West Anglia first. And lots of WA drivers sign flirts now too. Clearly the lack of flights to/from Stansted dictates that Stansted services don't warrant 12-car trains right now. Could the 745/1's be used on London to Bishops Stortford and Cambridge? Maybe platform lengths are an issue?
The 720's seem to be testing along GEML, so that suggests the GEML will be first to get them - before WA. But why would GA pay for 745/1s that are mainly sitting around?

As I said, its crew training with a bit of software issues which is slowing their introduction on West Anglia. All of Cambridge drivers sign the flirts, a big chunk of Liv St WA too, but Bishops Stortford don't, and that's where the vast bulk of WA drivers are based, and also where the vast majority of Stansted Express work is diagrammed to.
Yes if diagrammed appropriately they could maybe be used on other West Anglia services (again I've heard there's a software issue causing DOO problems?), however as you say, the demand for 12 coach trains anywhere on West at any time of day at present is just not there.
I believe the plan is for West to be last to get 720's, after Southend and the GE, as I understand it, the 379's are staying for a further 18 months, and once the 745's come in, they should start replacing 317's on Cambridges and other WA services.

 

[dk1]

Catering will return from Monday on most Intercity services as long as they are formed by a 745/0.

 

[Taylorgb19]

What about trolly service on 745/1

Catering will return from Monday on most Intercity services as long as they are formed by a 745/0.

 

[dk1]

What about trolly service on 745/1

No trolley catering just over the counter. Apart from disabled, passengers will not be permitted to sit in coach C.

 

[trebor79]

Catering will return from Monday on most Intercity services as long as they are formed by a 745/0.

Excellent news! Great to see a bit of common sense being applied.
What are loadings on the Norwich - London route like at the moment. All the Cambridge's I see going over the level crossings on the Breckland line appear to be completely devoid of passengers. A very sad sight.

 

[dk1]

Excellent news! Great to see a bit of common sense being applied.
What are loadings on the Norwich - London route like at the moment. All the Cambridge's I see going over the level crossings on the Breckland line appear to be completely devoid of passengers. A very sad sight.

Things are picking up. All those I have been working lately have been into double figures. Actually a few have seen more passengers than the London I have worked the same day. Busiest was last week when there where OHL issues at Cambridge North so we where picking up the Lynn passengers at Ely. Approx 60 alighted at Cambridge that morning which has been unheard of lately.

 

[Rick1984]

I'm on the 1730 which is a Stansted Express unit. Very strong new train smell. Lack of tables feels odd .

 

[dk1]

Update on the reintroduced catering provision on the GEML. Trains hourly from 05:00-18:00 up (07:30-20:30) down will now be covered whether operated by 745/0 or 745/1s. The latter where never going to have any sort of catering but will have a static trolley during the reduced timetable. Many staff are hoping this will lead to a re-think on future services operated along this route by Stansted Express stock. No perishable food is being served yet such as sandwiches but most other products are available with all hot drinks now selling for a mere £1.

 

[chubs]

Presumably 745/1 on the route is just temporary to keep all the units working a bit?

 

[dk1]

Presumably 745/1 on the route is just temporary to keep all the units working a bit?

They will be booked to work the 05:00up & 07:30dn eventually to swap at Liv St onto/off Airport services to cycle the units to Crown Point for maintainence. The 06:24up/18:10dn will be 720s.

 

[306024]

They will be booked to work the 05:00up & 07:30dn eventually to swap at Liv St onto/off Airport services to cycle the units to Crown Point for maintainence. The 06:24up/18:10dn will be 720s.

Looking at RTT beyond the current Covid timetable there’s another swap at Liverpool St with the 19.55 Stansted and 20.00 Norwich.

Unless that changes in December that implies a Stansted 745/1 works the 05.00 up and 20.00 down with overnight maintenance at Crown Point, and a Norwich 745/0 goes onto Stansted Express from 20.00 until 07.08 arrival from Stansted the next morning when it drops into the 07.30 down.

With 9 diagrams on Stansted Express and until a new speeded up timetable is introduced on the Norwich service 10 diagrams required there, availability has to be 19/20 units. That could see other Norwich services being worked ad-hoc by a 745/1 should the maintenance spare have to be a 745/0 on occasions.

 

[dk1]

Looking at RTT beyond the current Covid timetable there’s another swap at Liverpool St with the 19.55 Stansted and 20.00 Norwich.

Unless that changes in December that implies a Stansted 745/1 works the 05.00 up and 20.00 down with overnight maintenance at Crown Point, and a Norwich 745/0 goes onto Stansted Express from 20.00 until 07.08 arrival from Stansted the next morning when it drops into the 07.30 down.

Yes that's it. I knew of an evening one but wasnt sure what. Cheers.

 

[306024]

Yes that's it. I knew of an evening one but wasnt sure what. Cheers.

I’ve forgotten the Norwich in 90 diagram, so that’s 20/20 availability, a touch adventurous so perhaps 720s will put in an appearance on another diagram when the 321s have gone.

 

[dk1]

I’ve forgotten the Norwich in 90 diagram, so that’s 20/20 availability, a touch adventurous so perhaps 720s will put in an appearance on another diagram when the 321s have gone.

Saturdays 720s will work the entire diagram starting with the 06:30 up I am told. Driver knowledge will be link specific at Norwich so it will be less flexible for set swaps.

 

[Dave1987]

I’ve forgotten the Norwich in 90 diagram, so that’s 20/20 availability, a touch adventurous so perhaps 720s will put in an appearance on another diagram when the 321s have gone.

Even with the London - Norwich services dropping to hourly the loadings are not exactly huge. I cannot foresee there being any need for the Norwich in 90 services for a long time to come. I doubt there will be much need for a half-hourly service unless loadings pick up drastically. I don't think anyone can predict what is going to happen going forward but you can be pretty sure that the previous plans will not be needed for a while yet. Even the main source of passengers for the entire GEML, the GE suburbs, still are seeing nowhere near the original numbers of passengers.

 

[samuelmorris]

Saturdays 720s will work the entire diagram starting with the 06:30 up I am told. Driver knowledge will be link specific at Norwich so it will be less flexible for set swaps.

Not really the right thread for this but is that likely to be a pair of /5s or a single /1? I would assume a /1 since it's more in keeping with a 745 - sort of!

 

[dk1]

Not really the right thread for this but is that likely to be a pair of /5s or a single /1? I would assume a /1 since it's more in keeping with a 745 - sort of!

We where told 2x5car but everything changes from week to week.

 

[306024]

Even with the London - Norwich services dropping to hourly the loadings are not exactly huge. I cannot foresee there being any need for the Norwich in 90 services for a long time to come. I doubt there will be much need for a half-hourly service unless loadings pick up drastically. I don't think anyone can predict what is going to happen going forward but you can be pretty sure that the previous plans will not be needed for a while yet. Even the main source of passengers for the entire GEML, the GE suburbs, still are seeing nowhere near the original numbers of passengers.

Yes, certainly not needed commercially, but politically (as they always have been)? The discussion is more around the theory of a non-Covid timetable. As for three trains per hour to Norwich, could be another part of the bid that falls by the wayside.

 

[Alfie1014]

Some diagrams posted on another site (showing what should have been happending with the May 2020 TT); has as already mentioned 720s on the 06:24 and 19:30 up and 17:02 and 18:10 down, the Stansted unit swap and 2 pairs of 755/4s covering the NOR in 90s plus three other round trips, so 5 round trips, 10:30, 11:00, 15:30, 19:00 and 20:30 down and 08:00, 09:00, 13:00, 17:00 and 18:00 up. Whether in the current circumstances these all come to pass we will have to wait and see.

 

[RailWonderer]

They will be booked to work the 05:00up & 07:30dn eventually to swap at Liv St onto/off Airport services to cycle the units to Crown Point for maintainence. The 06:24up/18:10dn will be 720s.

This used to be the IC diagram that stabled at Bounds Green for the day if I'm right.

They should be using 755s over 720s if there is a shortage of 745s for any reason when the timetable returns to normal in the months ahead. There is a small surplus of 755s and they have 2+2 seating with tables. If they could run a trolley on them it would be an extra. If I was GA I would be looking to run 755s in multiple into London with a trolley or two on diagrams that start and end at Norwich if a 745 is not available.

 

[Speed43125]

This used to be the IC diagram that stabled at Bounds Green for the day if I'm right.

They should be using 755s over 720s if there is a shortage of 745s for any reason when the timetable returns to normal in the months ahead. There is a small surplus of 755s and they have 2+2 seating with tables. If they could run a trolley on them it would be an extra. If I was GA I would be looking to run 755s in multiple into London with a trolley or two on diagrams that start and end at Norwich if a 745 is not available.

Are the 755s cleared to run in multiple now? I'm a bit out of touch with them

 

[Dave1987]

This used to be the IC diagram that stabled at Bounds Green for the day if I'm right.

They should be using 755s over 720s if there is a shortage of 745s for any reason when the timetable returns to normal in the months ahead. There is a small surplus of 755s and they have 2+2 seating with tables. If they could run a trolley on them it would be an extra. If I was GA I would be looking to run 755s in multiple into London with a trolley or two on diagrams that start and end at Norwich if a 745 is not available.

Why? That is a big waste of a resource that is designed for none electrified lines. Plus you then need to keep at least two 755's out of the normal diagraming just in case.

 

[RailWonderer]

Why? That is a big waste of a resource that is designed for none electrified lines. Plus you then need to keep at least two 755's out of the normal diagraming just in case.

Only 26 are needed to run the full rural service. There are 38 of them. Not a waste, the tables and superior seating would be put to good use on the IC.

 

[Bikeman78]

Why? That is a big waste of a resource that is designed for none electrified lines. Plus you then need to keep at least two 755's out of the normal diagraming just in case.

If a 745 fails at Norwich at the start of the day then it's far more likely there will be a spare 755 in the area rather than a 720. Conversely, if one of the sets stabled in London fails, the only replacement will be a 720.

On a more general note, I can't help thinking they should have ordered an extra 745 and two fewer 720s.

 

[Rick1984]

I wouldn't fancy lugging a catering trolley up and down the internal ramps on a12 car train

 

[Dave1987]

Yes, certainly not needed commercially, but politically (as they always have been)? The discussion is more around the theory of a non-Covid timetable. As for three trains per hour to Norwich, could be another part of the bid that falls by the wayside.

Ow indeed it is all very political but in the current circumstances, the DFT can quite easily put the Norwich MP's demands at the back of the priority list and actually give the service for what there is demand. I honestly believe the new timetable for when the whole new fleet is eventually in can probably be binned as the demand will be very very different come the other side of this crisis.

 

[dk1]

Are the 755s cleared to run in multiple now? I'm a bit out of touch with them

Not passed to work South of Mark's Tey in passenger traffic or in multiple yet.