Class 777's - transparent cab doors?

[Mattyblob]

As seen here in Geoff Marshall's video

The door between the driver's cab and passenger saloon is made of glass that will be completely transparent in regular service. I'm curious to see people's thoughts on this.

In my opinion it's a bad idea - firstly because it increases the risk of the driver being distracted by nosey joe public, but also what implications are there if a passenger witnesses a traumatic incident?

 

[Agent_Squash]

As seen here in Geoff Marshall's video

The door between the driver's cab and passenger saloon is made of glass that will be completely transparent in regular service. I'm curious to see people's thoughts on this.

In my opinion it's a bad idea - firstly because it increases the risk of the driver being distracted by nosey joe public, but also what implications are there if a passenger witnesses a traumatic incident?

They have it on the ICE3 trains in Germany iirc. It can be made frosted again.

 

[ScottGallagher]

As seen here in Geoff Marshall's video

The door between the driver's cab and passenger saloon is made of glass that will be completely transparent in regular service. I'm curious to see people's thoughts on this.

In my opinion it's a bad idea - firstly because it increases the risk of the driver being distracted by nosey joe public, but also what implications are there if a passenger witnesses a traumatic incident?

Of the three videos I've seen is Geoff the only one to mention this feature? The Merseyrail and Stadler guys talking about passenger feedback didn't seem to and I'd be surprised if such a feature was high on passenger wish list.

Expect them to be permanently frosted or vinyled over pretty quickly after entering service for those reasons you say !

 

[Bletchleyite]

Like with Metrolink it was intended to make passengers feel less "on their own" with DOO operation. As DOO seems not to be happening I agree it is likely to get some black vinyl stuck over the inside in fairly short order.

 

[Vespa]

I rode on the Tyne and Wear metro over the weekend no distractions or problems happened to the driver while you can still see what's happening on front of you.

I personally like the idea of being able to to see the front as you can observe the signalling, tracks and other trains.

 

[pdeaves]

No different to DLR, Tyne & Wear Metro and most tram systems in that the passenger can see out. I don't think it will be a problem unless 'they' really want it to be.

 

[ac6000cw]

Presumably the glazing can be made light-blocking at night (as the cab needs to be dark)?

The old BR Mk1 DMUs had drop-down blinds inside the cab for that purpose, which some drivers used in daytime too, but most didn't. I had a ride on a couple of modern Spanish regional EMUs a few years ago which also had glazed cab/saloon partitions.

 

[L401CJF]

I believe if the emergency brake is applied the glass automatically frosts to try and avoid nasty incidents being witnessed.

I'm sure there was some sort of issue regarding staff not wanting visibility into the cab a while ago and mentions of it being permanently frosted anyway. Whether or not that will be the case is anyone's guess!

 

[hacman]

I rode on the Tyne and Wear metro over the weekend no distractions or problems happened to the driver while you can still see what's happening on front of you.

I personally like the idea of being able to to see the front as you can observe the signalling, tracks and other trains.

It is worth pointing out, however, that the glass into the actual cab on the current Tyne and Wear Metro fleet isn't transparent, and that our new fleet will have full-width cabs with no windows into the saloon or forward-facing view.

 

[DelW]

I can understand drivers being reluctant to allow passenger visibility into their cabs, particularly in an era of camera phones and video uploads, but I wonder if there was any resistance when first generation DMUs were introduced?

Obviously there was no video recording available then, let alone upload websites, and I can't imagine many people would have used expensive cine film to record the driver in action. But steam crews hadn't been in view of passengers, and I wonder if drivers moving onto DMUs had concerns about the change?

 

[notadriver]

As a bus or coach driver I’m fine being in full view of passengers. Some buses even have a front seat next to the driver for that ‘driver’ view. But I wouldn’t be comfortable as a train driver knowing someone was looking over my shoulder. It’s weird that.

 

[Vespa]

It is worth pointing out, however, that the glass into the actual cab on the current Tyne and Wear Metro fleet isn't transparent, and that our new fleet will have full-width cabs with no windows into the saloon or forward-facing view.

You can have partial curtains or permanently frosted glass to close off the cab from public view, Metrolink has open view of the tracks in front as do the early DMUs on preserved railways.

Personally I think its a bit of a red herring.

 

[Nova1]

Anyone know if the glass at the rear of the train will be transparent during operation (as there should be nobody in the rear cab)

 

[Bill57p9]

Edinburgh Trams also have visibility forwards and of the cab from the passenger saloon.

I did really enjoy the "drivers eye view" first generation DMUs offered however I understand the reluctance in these days of phone video uploads and the potential for compensation claims for witnessing something decidedly unpleasant.

I have thought that scenic routes (WHL, S&C, Cumbrian Coast, Cambrian Coast, Heart of Wales, etc) would really benefit from a forward view, even if it were CCTV (which can see forwards but not the cab) screened into displays in the passenger area. Again an automatic shut off could be implemented.

 

[Aictos]

As a bus or coach driver I’m fine being in full view of passengers. Some buses even have a front seat next to the driver for that ‘driver’ view. But I wouldn’t be comfortable as a train driver knowing someone was looking over my shoulder. It’s weird that.

I prefer that seat you mentioned as when using such vehicles especially on a route I've not done before as it gives a good view of the road ahead so I can use it to learn the route eg learn the local landmarks so I know when to get off or if I'm close to my destination and prepare to get off.

Plus there's usually decent leg room too.

 

[hexagon789]

but I wonder if there was any resistance when first generation DMUs were introduced?

Among footplate staff? Possibly, but publicity material of the period seems to treat it as a positive feature for passenger.

 

[Socanxdis]

On a seperate note, I do like the light bar led lights around the doors that flash green and red when doors open and close.

 

[DelW]

Among footplate staff? Possibly, but publicity material of the period seems to treat it as a positive feature for passenger.

Indeed it was popular with passengers, especially small boys (which I was at the time), but it was drivers I was wondering about.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I used it to learn how to drive a Class 101

I jest, but when I did get a go many years later as a birthday present it all pretty much made sense!

 

[507 001]

I believe the intention is for the glass to become frosted when the driver keys in.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe the intention is for the glass to become frosted when the driver keys in.

So you'll get a view out of the back? That's still quite cool.

 

[hexagon789]

Indeed it was popular with passengers, especially small boys (which I was at the time), but it was drivers I was wondering about.

I suspect it probably varied, given sone were happy to give unofficial 'cab rides', presumably there was a mix between those not bothered and those who would pull the blinds down.

I believe the intention is for the glass to become frosted when the driver keys in.

In which case what exactly is the point in having the transparent capability?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In which case what exactly is the point in having the transparent capability?

As I mentioned upthread they were designed that way for DOO, which is now not happening (it seems). Varying the order to change to a solid panel would no doubt be far more expensive than a small software change.

Still cool if you can look out of the back, anyway!

 

[hexagon789]

As I mentioned upthread they were designed that way for DOO, which is now not happening (it seems). Varying the order to change to a solid panel would no doubt be far more expensive than a small software change.

Still cool if you can look out of the back, anyway!

So if they were going DOO they wouldn't "frost" when the driver keyed-in?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect it probably varied, given sone were happy to give unofficial 'cab rides', presumably there was a mix between those not bothered and those who would pull the blinds down.

Certainly in the 90s some east Manchester and Conwy Valley drivers would and some wouldn't. It was generally quite polarised - the ones that would were quite happy to, the ones that wouldn't tended to almost get angry that you even had the temerity to ask.

So if they were going DOO they wouldn't "frost" when the driver keyed-in?

The original design was that like Metrolink the window, and thus being able to see the driver, would make people feel safer on board when the trains were operated DOO because they could see they were not alone. If DOO isn't happening that's (in part) what the guard is for, so the drivers presumably have pushed for it not to be available.

 

[507 001]

So if they were going DOO they wouldn't "frost" when the driver keyed-in?

No probably not, the spec was changed after the units were ordered due to push back from staff I believe.

 

[Geezertronic]

No different to DLR, Tyne & Wear Metro and most tram systems in that the passenger can see out. I don't think it will be a problem unless 'they' really want it to be.

Not sure about the others you mention, but last time I traveled on DLR, there was no driver or drivers cab to look into

 

[pdeaves]

Not sure about the others you mention, but last time I traveled on DLR, there was no driver or drivers cab to look into

No, hence "in that the passenger can see out" [and see whatever is on the track in the way of the train]

 

[hexagon789]

The original design was that like Metrolink the window, and thus being able to see the driver, would make people feel safer on board when the trains were operated DOO because they could see they were not alone. If DOO isn't happening that's (in part) what the guard is for, so the drivers presumably have pushed for it not to be available

That seems a reasonable intention but it is a shame that the feature now won't be used, at least for the leading cab.

No probably not, the spec was changed after the units were ordered due to push back from staff I believe.

If it was changed after ordering, couldn't they have just put in pre-blacked glass or even a solid partition then? Seems pointless going to the expense of having the special glass but for now real purpose now.

 

[notadriver]

That seems a reasonable intention but it is a shame that the feature now won't be used, at least for the leading cab.


If it was changed after ordering, couldn't they have just put in pre-blacked glass or even a solid partition then? Seems pointless going to the expense of having the special glass but for now real purpose now.

I doubt it would have got past ASLEF to have the windows unfrosted/uncovered.