Compensation for all journey routes home being cancelled Northern Rail

[Zfegan]

On 09/12/23 there were train disruptions between Blackpool and Liverpool due to strong winds and an object falling onto the lines. I had an off peak return ticket between Preston and Liverpool, which I booked through the Trainline app. I was a just over an hour late on my way there, and my return at 21:33 was cancelled along with every journey after and no bus replacement services. I managed to get as far as Wigan station where I waited for 2 hours and was told by a guard to get an Uber back and it would be refunded.

I contacted Trainline first via email and phone and they told me they weren’t liable as a third party app so it was down to Northern to assist me. I contacted northern the same way and was told Trainline was responsible and there was nothing they could do.

They did refund my return so half of my ticket but I can’t seem to claim anything else. I’ve sent detailed information to both company’s via email and applied for delay repay but it’s amounted to nothing. Having paid £36.30 for the entire journey with all the disruptions, I don’t know what to do.

 

[WesternLancer]

On 09/12/23 there were train disruptions between Blackpool and Liverpool due to strong winds and an object falling onto the lines. I had an off peak return ticket between Preston and Liverpool, which I booked through the Trainline app. I was a just over an hour late on my way there, and my return at 21:33 was cancelled along with every journey after and no bus replacement services. I managed to get as far as Wigan station where I waited for 2 hours and was told by a guard to get an Uber back and it would be refunded.

I contacted Trainline first via email and phone and they told me they weren’t liable as a third party app so it was down to Northern to assist me. I contacted northern the same way and was told Trainline was responsible and there was nothing they could do.

They did refund my return so half of my ticket but I can’t seem to claim anything else. I’ve sent detailed information to both company’s via email and applied for delay repay but it’s amounted to nothing. Having paid £36.30 for the entire journey with all the disruptions, I don’t know what to do.

Welcome
I think your argument is with Northern Rail (not Trainline) if Northern operate the Wigan - Liverpool service. Northern would have had the duty to 'get you home' as long as they were accepting passengers (might help people if you can give the train times on that date that you used or approximate times).

But the problem will be that the guard who advised you get an Uber was probably not 'authorized' to give that advice, they should have advised you or helped you contact Northern rail control team to ask them to arrange onward transport for you. And no doubt you have no idea who they were, did not record their name, did not get them to sign anything to say that you would get your Uber fare re-imbursed and thus no 'proof' that a member of staff advised this.

Others may have better advice but i suspect you need to:

- take this up with Northern Customer services in writing to request a repayment of the fare owed (but accepting the refund for the return portion of the ticket may not have helped your case, tho i am not sure), if you have written to them already you may need to go back and press them again (post copies of what you have sent if that helps, and what reply you had)
- you need to cite the relevant section of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (probably page 18-19 section to look through about 'when things go wrong') * and ask why you were not assisted in getting home

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/3Y9UXuFziljwsGFCUAwKAA/0aa50a101febffda28c070aae2572570/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel.pdf

- if they refuse your claim it may be that you have to ask for a Deadlock Letter and take it to the Rail Ombudsman (who have a poor reputation on the forum for actually doing much...)

Hopefully others will offer useful advice / corrections to my suggested course of action

*28. What Happens When Things Go Wrong?

28.1 We want you to be satisfied with your journey. If you have any problem that cannot be resolved to your satisfaction at the time, every Train Company provides details of how to make a complaint or comment on its website and on notices at stations and on trains.

28.2 Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your Ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary, provide overnight accommodation for you.

 

[Watershed]

@WesternLancer is absolutely right. As the operator you were travelling with, Northern were obliged to provide you with alternative transport to get you home. They failed to do so and their member of staff gave you authority to incur the cost of an Uber to do so yourself; they are therefore liable for the cost of your Uber.

Whilst Northern are correct that only Trainline (as the retailer) can refund your ticket, they are wrong to suggest this in the circumstances. They may now claim that, with your return portion having been refunded, they have no further responsibility but this is incorrect since it is their misinformation that led you to pursue a refund.

As you were delayed by more than 2 hours you are also entitled to claim Delay Repay - where you can choose between compensation of 100% of the cost of your ticket, or alternatively 2 complimentary tickets valid for any return journey using Northern.

You can similarly claim Delay Repay for the delay to your outward journey, but note that Northern will limit the amount of compensation you can claim to 100% of what you paid. There is no such limit for the complimentary tickets so I would claim 1 complimentary ticket for the outward journey and 'cash' compensation for the return journey, unless you think you could get better value from a complimentary ticket in which case you could claim 1 for the outward journey as well as 2 for the return journey.

Note that you only have 28 days from the date of your journey to claim compensation, so don't leave it too long.

Please let us know how you get on and if you have any further questions.

 

[WesternLancer]

@WesternLancer is absolutely right. As the operator you were travelling with, Northern were obliged to provide you with alternative transport to get you home. They failed to do so and their member of staff gave you authority to incur the cost of an Uber to do so yourself; they are therefore liable for the cost of your Uber.

Whilst Northern are correct that only Trainline (as the retailer) can refund your ticket, they are wrong to suggest this in the circumstances. They may now claim that, with your return portion having been refunded, they have no further responsibility but this is incorrect since it is their misinformation that led you to pursue a refund.

As you were delayed by more than 2 hours you are also entitled to claim Delay Repay - where you can choose between compensation of 100% of the cost of your ticket, or alternatively 2 complimentary tickets valid for any return journey using Northern.

You can similarly claim Delay Repay for the delay to your outward journey, but note that Northern will limit the amount of compensation you can claim to 100% of what you paid. There is no such limit for the complimentary tickets so I would claim 1 complimentary ticket for the outward journey and 'cash' compensation for the return journey, unless you think you could get better value from a complimentary ticket in which case you could claim 1 for the outward journey as well as 2 for the return journey.

Note that you only have 28 days from the date of your journey to claim compensation, so don't leave it too long.

Please let us know how you get on and if you have any further questions.

Thanks for clarifying. My sense is that the OP would like Northern to pay for their Uber however, (tho comp tickets for future Northern Train trip might be of more value to the OP if they intend to travel far enough for that to be pertinent cost wise).

How would the OP best pursue Northern for the cost of the Uber taxi if they want to pursue that? It strikes me that this would require Northern to be open to being persuaded that a member of staff did in fact give this 'authority' and I am unsure how easy this will be to do.

To @Zfegan - if you are writing to Northern again to pursue this further you can post your draft here for people to help get the wording correct in a way that is in line with railway 'rules' in order to have best chance of successful outcome. But as Watershed says, you need to pursue this quickly due to the time limits that may apply.

 

[scrapy]

It somewhat muddies the waters if the OP got a taxi to their home address as strictly speaking Northern only have to get them to their destination station so they may claim they are not liable for the full taxi fare.

 

[Gaelan]

Thanks for clarifying. My sense is that the OP would like Northern to pay for their Uber however, (tho comp tickets for future Northern Train trip might be of more value to the OP if they intend to travel far enough for that to be pertinent cost wise).

Surely OP is owed both, no? At least in a "normal" situation where the TOC gets you a taxi, you're still owed delay repay.

 

[island]

It somewhat muddies the waters if the OP got a taxi to their home address as strictly speaking Northern only have to get them to their destination station so they may claim they are not liable for the full taxi fare.

Yes. They may also deduct the refunded ticket from any reimbursement as you don’t get both alternative travel and a refund.

 

[185143]

Yes. They may also deduct the refunded ticket from any reimbursement as you don’t get both alternative travel and a refund.

You can claim delay repay after alternative travel is provided.

 

[island]

You can claim delay repay after alternative travel is provided.

You can if you’re delayed by the relevant threshold, but you still don’t get both alternative travel and a ticket refund.

 

[Deafdoggie]

You can if you’re delayed by the relevant threshold, but you still don’t get both alternative travel and a ticket refund.

Maybe not as a right, but LNR have paid my taxi & refunded my train ticket many times (a reflection on their poor service!) and given delay repay too sometimes! But that might also be incompetence rather than good service.

 

[Zfegan]

Welcome
I think your argument is with Northern Rail (not Trainline) if Northern operate the Wigan - Liverpool service. Northern would have had the duty to 'get you home' as long as they were accepting passengers (might help people if you can give the train times on that date that you used or approximate times).

But the problem will be that the guard who advised you get an Uber was probably not 'authorized' to give that advice, they should have advised you or helped you contact Northern rail control team to ask them to arrange onward transport for you. And no doubt you have no idea who they were, did not record their name, did not get them to sign anything to say that you would get your Uber fare re-imbursed and thus no 'proof' that a member of staff advised this.

Others may have better advice but i suspect you need to:

- take this up with Northern Customer services in writing to request a repayment of the fare owed (but accepting the refund for the return portion of the ticket may not have helped your case, tho i am not sure), if you have written to them already you may need to go back and press them again (post copies of what you have sent if that helps, and what reply you had)
- you need to cite the relevant section of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (probably page 18-19 section to look through about 'when things go wrong') * and ask why you were not assisted in getting home

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/3Y9UXuFziljwsGFCUAwKAA/0aa50a101febffda28c070aae2572570/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel.pdf

- if they refuse your claim it may be that you have to ask for a Deadlock Letter and take it to the Rail Ombudsman (who have a poor reputation on the forum for actually doing much...)

Hopefully others will offer useful advice / corrections to my suggested course of action

*28. What Happens When Things Go Wrong?

28.1 We want you to be satisfied with your journey. If you have any problem that cannot be resolved to your satisfaction at the time, every Train Company provides details of how to make a complaint or comment on its website and on notices at stations and on trains.

28.2 Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your Ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary, provide overnight accommodation for you.

Hi WesternLancer,
Thanks for the info and help with the situation! I can confirm northern compensated me for the delays and Trainline initially refunded the unused part of the ticket, so whilst they didn’t pay for the Uber, the compensation for delays covered it anyway, just about.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi WesternLancer,
Thanks for the info and help with the situation! I can confirm northern compensated me for the delays and Trainline initially refunded the unused part of the ticket, so whilst they didn’t pay for the Uber, the compensation for delays covered it anyway, just about.

Thanks for update - hope that you felt that this outcome has at least been of some help.

 

[Watershed]

Hi WesternLancer,
Thanks for the info and help with the situation! I can confirm northern compensated me for the delays and Trainline initially refunded the unused part of the ticket, so whilst they didn’t pay for the Uber, the compensation for delays covered it anyway, just about.

You're due delay compensation as well as reimbursement for the taxi, so I wouldn't accept just the compensation.