Complex Delay Repay / compensation case — two TOCs causing delays + Seatfrog + gateline staff telling me to get a taxi

[thejsa]

Hello all,

Bit of a tricky case where I’m not sure how to properly claim compensation…

I booked to travel from Cardiff Central to Heathrow Terminal 5 with GWR online (for which they gave me a ticket to HXX), Super Off-Peak Return (not via London Terminals) w/ 16-25 Railcard @ £65.50, with an outbound itinerary emailed to me after purchase as follows:

1st Dec 2022

0507 CDF - 0648 RDG (GWR) — with a £14 Seatfrog upgrade
0656 RDG - 0734 HAY (Elizabeth line)
0739 HAY - 0747 HXX (Elizabeth line) — this didn’t seem to take the travel to T5 into account however

Unfortunately, the 0507 GWR service was delayed into Reading, arriving at 0652, leaving less than 4 minutes for the connection; impossible with luggage, so I missed the Elizabeth line connection.

Station staff advised me to take the next EL service at 0713, which I did, but here’s where it goes quite awry…

Whilst on the EL train, I became aware at the last minute that the onward connecting service I’d need to take (originating at Abbey Wood, 0754 HAY - 0810 Heathrow T5) would stop short at Paddington due to a points failure.

As I had a flight to catch from Heathrow T5 at 0940 (for which BA advised arriving 2 hours early) and going onwards to Hayes and Harlington would mean a longer taxi if needed, I alighted at Iver and sought the advice of the Elizabeth line station staff, who instructed me to take an Uber to Heathrow (which cost me nearly £24 !)

(Edit, since it’s possibly relevant; The taxi finally got me into Heathrow at 08:22, so I was delayed roughly 30 minutes in the end on top of everything else… should I be entitled to Delay Repay on top of the taxi costs, since the station staff told me to take it?)

I’m not sure from whom I need to claim what here, since it seems like there are two different TOCs involved causing the delays, combined with Seatfrog and being told to get a taxi by the MTR staff.

I’d appreciate if some kind folks could please advise what to do from here as it’s an almighty mess! (I’ve also now gotten an email saying my return leg between Reading and Cardiff has been cancelled, but that’s another matter…)

Many thanks in advance if anyone is able to help unpick this

 

[londonbridge]

Following the usual advice of claiming from the first TOC which caused the delay I’d talk to GWR first.

 

[Watershed]

Rail tickets aren't issued to specific Heathrow terminals - they are issued to Heathrow Rail, and are valid to all terminals (inter terminal transfers are free, including on the Heathrow Express in any event).

Unfortunately, I think you will struggle to recover the costs of your taxi - GWR may well say you should have waited for the next train(s), which would have been due to get you to to T5 by 08:31. This would almost certainly still have enabled you to catch your flight. In any event, your itinerary allowed (slightly) less than the recommended 2 hours before departure, and so even if the next train would have resulted in you missing your flight, GWR would probably be entitled to refuse your claim for the cost of the taxi.

If the MTR staff at Iver told you that you would be eligible to claim back the cost of the taxi then this arguably opens up liability for it, but I imagine they may just have said (in as many words) "this is the fastest way to get to Heathrow". Even if they had said that you could claim back the cost, the difficulty would lie in proving this, if (as is quite possible) this was later denied.

As for Delay Repay, you are eligible to claim this - you still made the journey, you just decided to reduce the delay by making your own arrangements from Iver onwards. You should claim your DR from GWR, as they are the ones that caused your journey to become delayed, which is what matters. MTR's cancellation may have exacerbated the delay but you were only put into that position as a result of GWR's delay.

When you submit your claim form, you'll want to attach a picture/PDF of your ticket as well as your Seatfrog upgrade (which also counts as a ticket). When asked for the ticket reference number enter 0, and for the price enter the combined cost of the two.

 

[WesternLancer]

Rail tickets aren't issued to specific Heathrow terminals - they are issued to Heathrow Rail, and are valid to all terminals (inter terminal transfers are free, including on the Heathrow Express in any event).

Unfortunately, I think you will struggle to recover the costs of your taxi - GWR may well say you should have waited for the next train(s), which would have been due to get you to to T5 by 08:31. This would almost certainly still have enabled you to catch your flight. In any event, your itinerary allowed (slightly) less than the recommended 2 hours before departure, and so even if the next train would have resulted in you missing your flight, GWR would probably be entitled to refuse your claim for the cost of the taxi.

If the MTR staff at Iver told you that you would be eligible to claim back the cost of the taxi then this arguably opens up liability for it, but I imagine they may just have said (in as many words) "this is the fastest way to get to Heathrow". Even if they had said that you could claim back the cost, the difficulty would lie in proving this, if (as is quite possible) this was later denied.

As for Delay Repay, you are eligible to claim this - you still made the journey, you just decided to reduce the delay by making your own arrangements from Iver onwards. You should claim your DR from GWR, as they are the ones that caused your journey to become delayed, which is what matters. MTR's cancellation may have exacerbated the delay but you were only put into that position as a result of GWR's delay.

When you submit your claim form, you'll want to attach a picture/PDF of your ticket as well as your Seatfrog upgrade (which also counts as a ticket). When asked for the ticket reference number enter 0, and for the price enter the combined cost of the two.

I think this is a good approach.

Personally I would go to GWR and claim delay repay (this is going to be the simplest and quickest way, I hope, of getting money back to you for a disrupted journey) - if there is a way to explain about the taxi as part of that D-R claim then do so as no harm in doing that. If not, then pursue the taxi costs with GWR customer services, possibly copied to MTR.

Be mindful of the 28 day (please check) limit on submitting claims - so it may be that if the D-R claim is not settled very speedily you will want to start raising the Taxi fare with the railway GWR, copy to MTR before that 28 day limit so none of the parties can dismiss the claim as "not having been made soon enough".

Keep copies of everything (in case you have to take any part of it to the less than superb Rail Ombudsman).

When I request extra payments for things that the railway might argue is 'at their discretion/good will' I make it clear that I would be happy with Rail Travel Vouchers - this being as I assume it may cost them less to issue those than pay out in real money, so they may be that bit more likely to give vouchers than pay money - so that may be relevant ref the taxi - that assumes that you can use the vouchers (usually at a ticket office rather than on line) within a year (the voucher validity period) for another rail journey of course.

Perhaps if you have time wait 24 hours to see other posts on this thread as to courses of action so you can weigh up advice.

Come back here for more advice as things evolve.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

The advice that Watershed gave above is the best. You are entitled to a cash payment should GWR accept the DR claim. If GWR don't accept the claim, appeal to them (their's was the initial delay and you hold an intinerary confirming planned timings). (It's very, very unlikely that GWR would pay for the Uber but I suppose you could always ask. The railway won't normally accept liability of this kind, eg arising from the need to catch planes etc. etc..) If GWR won't accept the DR claim, you can raise it with the Ombudsman, but experience there is unfortunately mixed.

Main learning point, based on my own experience of trying to get to airports quickly, is that it is probably sensible to allow just slightly more time for a journey of this length to LHR... even if the itinerary had worked you would have arrived at T5 just under 1 hour ahead of the BA check-in cut-off time and GWR, although normally good, can often have delays of the kind you experienced. Although this was, of course, the first connection of the day from CDF.

(Btw, your ticket will be valid on other trains from RDG to CDF on the return between 1030 and 1530 or after 1900 on weekdays and anytime at weekends. No further reservation is needed.)

 

[hkstudent]

Generally, according it's fall into the category of consequential losses by the delay in Consumer Protection Law, but persuiting that would likely require a court case.

 

[Haywain]

Recovering the cost of the Uber from Iver to Heathrow would not seem likely. Had you remained on the train to Hayes & Harlington, you would have been on your scheduled route and would have been able to expect onward transport in the event of trains not operating. In the event, it appears that had you remained on the train to Hayes there were onward trains that would have got you to Heathrow Central, where the underground could have been used onward to Terminal 5.

 

[WesternLancer]

I assume there would be a good chance of claiming for the taxi fare under travel insurance 'failure of public transport' clause, but suspect that the costs of the taxi is probably not enough to get past the policy excess on most travel insurance policies.

But of course I can see no harm in asking the railway for it. But I'd get the D-R claim in and funds from that banked ASAP.

 

[AlterEgo]

I assume there would be a good chance of claiming for the taxi fare under travel insurance 'failure of public transport' clause, but suspect that the costs of the taxi is probably not enough to get past the policy excess on most travel insurance policies.

Plus of course the OP admits anyway to not leaving the airline's recommended time to arrive at Heathrow on their original itinerary. I think there is little prospect of recovering this fare by any means unless GWR are feeling very generous.

 

[WesternLancer]

Plus of course the OP admits anyway to not leaving the airline's recommended time to arrive at Heathrow on their original itinerary. I think there is little prospect of recovering this fare by any means unless GWR are feeling very generous.

Thanks - I'd not spotted that. Yes, in that regard I suspect an insurance claim is a waste of time really.

Tho I suspect the 05.07 from Cardiff is the 1st plausible departure of the day see one can see why the OP might have used that as the alternative would presumably be hotel costs

 

[SickyNicky]

For anyone reading this thread looking for advice on what to do in a similar situation, there is a direct TfL bus (350) to Heathrow terminal 5 from West Drayton station (the one before Hayes and Harlington from the Reading direction), which is often quicker (and cheaper) than changing to the Elizabeth Line at Hayes and Harlington (it takes 17 mins).

 

[FenMan]

For anyone reading this thread looking for advice on what to do in a similar situation, there is a direct TfL bus (350) to Heathrow terminal 5 from West Drayton station (the one before Hayes and Harlington from the Reading direction), which is often quicker (and cheaper) than changing to the Elizabeth Line at Hayes and Harlington (it takes 17 mins).

Not so convenient for a fair while now - a 200 metre walk is required at West Drayton, because:-

STATION APPROACH,WEST DRAYTON: ROUTES 222,350,U3 AND U5 are unable to serve the stops West Drayton Station (Stops E and F) due to an unsafe road surface. Please use the next or previous stops.

Source: TfL

 

[miklcct]

I assume there would be a good chance of claiming for the taxi fare under travel insurance 'failure of public transport' clause, but suspect that the costs of the taxi is probably not enough to get past the policy excess on most travel insurance policies.

But of course I can see no harm in asking the railway for it. But I'd get the D-R claim in and funds from that banked ASAP.

Is the OP on a very cheap insurance that the excess is more than £24?

 

[Haywain]

Is the OP on a very cheap insurance that the excess is more than £24?

Are you on a very expensive insurance policy that has an excess of less than £24?

 

[TPO]

For anyone reading this thread looking for advice on what to do in a similar situation, there is a direct TfL bus (350) to Heathrow terminal 5 from West Drayton station (the one before Hayes and Harlington from the Reading direction), which is often quicker (and cheaper) than changing to the Elizabeth Line at Hayes and Harlington (it takes 17 mins).

I believe there is also a direct coach service (National Express I think) from Cardiff to Heathrow. Bit awkward catching it from Sophia Gardens and not sure what the earliest service is, but cheaper than the train and time wise little in it as the coach goes direct to Heathrow rather than into London and out. Pre-COVID, there used to be a Rail-Air coach link from Reading too, left from just outside the station, again not sure whether that still runs.

TPO

 

[FenMan]

Pre-COVID, there used to be a Rail-Air coach link from Reading too, left from just outside the station, again not sure whether that still runs.

TPO

There still is. At that time of the morning there are RailAir coaches departing at 0700 and 0730, arriving Terminal 5 at 0751 and 0821 respectively.

A ticket routed RAILAIR READING is required.

 

[thejsa]

Apologies, I forgot to update on this -- in the end, I got £11.69 through standard Delay Repay and couldn't really be bothered to chase it up further, following everyone's advice here that they'd probably say no.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Watershed]

Apologies, I forgot to update on this -- in the end, I got £11.69 through standard Delay Repay and couldn't really be bothered to chase it up further, following everyone's advice here that they'd probably say no.

Thanks for all the help!

I would definitely appeal this. By my calculation, as the delay was between 30 and 59 minutes, you are due back 25% of the cost of your Super Off-Peak Return (as this was a return), plus 50% of the cost of your SeatFrog upgrade (as this was a single). That should equal £16.38 + £7 = £23.28, so around twice what they have paid you. That should at least cover the cost of your taxi.

 

[thejsa]

I would definitely appeal this. By my calculation, as the delay was between 30 and 59 minutes, you are due back 25% of the cost of your Super Off-Peak Return (as this was a return), plus 50% of the cost of your SeatFrog upgrade (as this was a single). That should equal £16.38 + £7 = £23.28, so around twice what they have paid you. That should at least cover the cost of your taxi.

I’ve missed the appeal window, unfortunately, by about a week — the low amount is probably due to my own error filling out the form as the email says they’ve calculated 15–29 minutes to Heathrow T123 (after digging a bit in timetables etc, had I stayed onto Hayes and Harlington, I suspect I might have been able to avoid some of the delay, too >.< - but this is good to know for the future, thanks!

 

[Watershed]

I’ve missed the appeal window, unfortunately, by about a week — the low amount is probably due to my own error filling out the form as the email says they’ve calculated 15–29 minutes to Heathrow T123 (after digging a bit in timetables etc, had I stayed onto Hayes and Harlington, I suspect I might have been able to avoid some of the delay, too >. but this is good to know for the future, thanks!

There is no basis in the NRCoT or their Charter for a time-limited appeal window - they have essentially just made that bit up. You have 6 years to bring a civil claim if push came to shove!

I would get in touch with their Customer Services to appeal.