Connection from HS2 to the Birmingham-Derby line.

[QSK19]

I get your point, but Loughborough wouldn’t just be on a stub between Leicester and a northern terminus of Nottingham. What about the line to Derby? There will still need to be trains heading north from Leicester to Derby and almost certainly Sheffield.

Good, because my initial thoughts when the HS2 eastern stub was re-routed from Toton to EMD to was that, for MML services, 2tph would go as far as EMD (instead of Leicester) in order to connect up with HS2 services proceeding further north - 1tph then continues to Nottingham and 1tph to Sheffield (HS2 services replace the second tph that each of them has today). All mainline services to stop at Loughborough to make up for it effectively becoming located within the sort of no-man’s land area between Leicester and EMD.

Given that HS2 would take the fast services, MML services could then stop at all mainline stations along the way so that the southern part of the MML regains a direct connection with the north. Rolling stock wise, if the 810s went somewhere else, my idea was to construct some Class “746” and “747” if Stadler stock (or “811” and “812” if Hitachi) - 746s/811s would be like LNER’s 800s (ie bi-mode for diversionary capabilities and non-electrified lines) and the 747s/812s would be like the 801s (ie electric but with one engine/battery for depot moves or to get it off the mainline if the overhead wires go down).

My concern about effectively relegating the MML from IC to regional express under the proposal in post 10 was that less services would go north of Kettering, thereby potentially removing any mainline calls at Loughborough.

What about the line to Derby? There will still need to be trains heading north from Leicester to Derby and almost certainly Sheffield.

To get from, say, Kettering to Derby:
- Connect service to Leicester;
- Change to a Regional service to EMD;
- Change to an HS2 service from EMD to Derby.

So, very complex - all the more reason for, as you say, Loughborough not being cut off!

 

[MarkyT]

A problem with using the HS2 East spur route from Kingsbury to Derby via the notional East Midlands Parkway connection is that it would be about 39 miles versus 29 miles via Burton, so a ~1.3 factor average speed uplift that way will not get you there any faster than the best timings on today's route. I would go for a hybrid, building much of the eastern spur to around Tonge/Breedon-on-the-Hill where i'd divert roughly parallel to the old Melbourne line through Chellaston to enter Derby via the Sinfin spur (heavily upgraded clearly!). This would be ~30 miles in total so about the same as the current route and free of conflicts with slower trains and less dependable ones (freight, I'm looking at you). The lower numbered platforms at Derby look like they could readily be extended to ~400m and if the all current street entrance and other platform buildings on #1 were removed, another long platform line might be constructed along its back face. Thus with 4 full-length through platforms for expresses and three ancillary shorter through platforms for other regional and MML services. Derby looks a reasonable prospect for HS2's major East Midlands hub. For direct Nottingham trains from the south and Midlands, a chord could be constructed from my new Breedon - Derby segment to join the Castle Donnington line and then a flyover over Sheet Stores/Trent junctions to remove many conflicts.

 

[Meerkat]

The cost of redesign and changes to scope would probably cost as much as just leaving the stub.

How much redesign is involved in just not doing some of the planned stuff? I guess making the trace narrower after reducing the tracks between Interchange and the eastern stub would be a big change as thats in build.

 

[snowball]

I guess making the trace narrower after reducing the tracks between Interchange and the eastern stub would be a big change as thats in build.

I'm pretty sure that's going ahead with the full design width (essentially six tracks for about a mile). A lot of it is on viaducts.

 

[chris2]

I'm pretty sure that's going ahead with the full design width (essentially six tracks for about a mile). A lot of it is on viaducts.

HS2 confirmed this in a recent article on the Delta junction.

In this complicated section of the Delta Junction, there are six tracks of the railway running alongside each other as they join the southern end of the Curdworth Box.

 

[Arkeeos]

HS2 confirmed this in a recent article on the Delta junction.

The government seems to be under the impression they can wipe multiple billions off the budget by descoping but there doesn’t seem to be anything to possibly descope and they haven’t mentioned anything specific either.

 

[Snow1964]

I still think a new Government will reinstate the section to East Midlands (and Handsacre to Crewe South).

Ignore all the sunk costs on the under construction current line, which by then will have majority of its earthworks, bridges, tunnels, viaducts substantially built. Under using this section is never going to please the electorate of Midlands and North.

If you assume a decision date of close to November 2024 (almost immediately after a General election, date tba) then relative cost of building bodged slow speed connections compared to few extra miles across mainly open fields is not substantially different. Whereas benefits in time and capacity are much higher for few extra miles.

Didn't very similar thing happen on TGV Est, to save money initially decided to cut the line to Vandiers (where spurs join the Metz-Nancy line), but within few months added back a further section to planned spurs near Baudrecourt (which led to Saarbrucken line) where could easily join existing Strasbourg line without long slow deviation.

You don't need to be a genius to work out that if you can approach Derby area at over 3 miles a minute and join existing line at 120mph spur (2 miles a minute) then is substantial time saving over joining existing line 20-25 miles further south on a slowish about 60-75mph spur with run through speed restricted Burton on Trent. (And any upgrade there is money which could be spent on lengthening the East Midlands spur line)