Connections to Isle of Wight - minimum connection times

[hermit]

I see that, following the welcome reopening of Ryde Pier, SWR have put on their website the traditional timetable showing train services between London and Shanklin. Very good (although it’s a pity nobody thought to remove the now outdated text reference to buses replacing trains between Esplanade and Pierhead).

The timetable shows the normal connections between train and catamaran at Portsmouth Harbour (typically ten mins or so) and at Ryde Pier Head (about 5 mins). There is of course the caveat that these connections cannot be guaranteed, but they are shown in the timetable, and we regular users expect them to be met unless there are unusual circumstances affecting the cats, eg bad weather or naval shipping movements.

Journey planners, however, now seem to be applying minimum connection times of 20 minutes at both Portsmouth and Ryde. This produces completely absurd results. Passengers are being led to believe that they will have to spend over an hour waiting for connections at both Portsmouth Harbour and Ryde Pierhead.

There is also the point that very often the effect of these connection times is to show the rival Hovertravel route via Southsea as giving the fastest route, even when it isn’t really.

To take the example of someone planning a day trip from Waterloo to Shanklin (an excellent idea, of course). On the SWR timetable he can leave Waterloo at 0930 and arrive in Shanklin at 1210. If he chooses to return at 1814, he will arrive back at Waterloo at 2053. If he takes the journey planners as gospel, he will not arrive until an hour later; and returning home on the same 1814 Island Line train he will not get to Waterloo until a ridiculous 2331.

Someone actually doing these journeys is likely to get a pleasant surprise when they discover that the connections are much better than they expected. But that’s not the point. Regular travellers, and followers of this site, know what is going on and plan journeys accordingly. However, a non-expert thinking about a visit to the island will take the journey planner at face value and could well conclude that the journey is just too long.

In terms of travelling times, islanders are used to being as far away from London as somewhere near Exeter - the planners make it appear that we’re even more remote, more like Cornwall!

 

[AlbertBeale]

I see that, following the welcome reopening of Ryde Pier, SWR have put on their website the traditional timetable showing train services between London and Shanklin. Very good (although it’s a pity nobody thought to remove the now outdated text reference to buses replacing trains between Esplanade and Pierhead).

The timetable shows the normal connections between train and catamaran at Portsmouth Harbour (typically ten mins or so) and at Ryde Pier Head (about 5 mins). There is of course the caveat that these connections cannot be guaranteed, but they are shown in the timetable, and we regular users expect them to be met unless there are unusual circumstances affecting the cats, eg bad weather or naval shipping movements.

Journey planners, however, now seem to be applying minimum connection times of 20 minutes at both Portsmouth and Ryde. This produces completely absurd results. Passengers are being led to believe that they will have to spend over an hour waiting for connections at both Portsmouth Harbour and Ryde Pierhead.

There is also the point that very often the effect of these connection times is to show the rival Hovertravel route via Southsea as giving the fastest route, even when it isn’t really.

To take the example of someone planning a day trip from Waterloo to Shanklin (an excellent idea, of course). On the SWR timetable he can leave Waterloo at 0930 and arrive in Shanklin at 1210. If he chooses to return at 1814, he will arrive back at Waterloo at 2053. If he takes the journey planners as gospel, he will not arrive until an hour later; and returning home on the same 1814 Island Line train he will not get to Waterloo until a ridiculous 2331.

Someone actually doing these journeys is likely to get a pleasant surprise when they discover that the connections are much better than they expected. But that’s not the point. Regular travellers, and followers of this site, know what is going on and plan journeys accordingly. However, a non-expert thinking about a visit to the island will take the journey planner at face value and could well conclude that the journey is just too long.

In terms of travelling times, islanders are used to being as far away from London as somewhere near Exeter - the planners make it appear that we’re even more remote, more like Cornwall!

A good reason for people using timetables, and their brain, rather than asking "journey planners"...

 

[Gaelan]

A good reason for people using timetables, and their brain, rather than asking "journey planners"...

Of course, that's only an option if you can afford non-Advance fares - otherwise your only choice is a journey proposed by a journey planner.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Of course, that's only an option if you can afford non-Advance fares - otherwise your only choice is a journey proposed by a journey planner.

Though in this case, travelling from London to Shanklin, say, an Advance fare would presumably only relate to a specific London-Portsmouth train, "and connections"; so if you end up getting an earlier (or later!) ferry connection and Island Trains connection than shown on the itinerary, it won't matter. (I'm pretty sure that's what I've done in the past.) However, the original point remains, that anyone checking the journey only using a journey planner, rather than a timetable, might not realise the journey is likely to be much much quicker than the planner suggests.

My main frustration on that route is the lack of interavailability as between the ferry and the hovercraft - especially on the return journey.

 

[david1212]

....
My main frustration on that route is the lack of interavailability as between the ferry and the hovercraft - especially on the return journey.

Given Hovertravel and Wightlink are AFAIK two totally seperate companies from an administration viewpoint even with the technology of 2023 the core issue is correctly allocating the Solent crossing part of the total fare per ticket when the route is chosen.

At busy times I'm not sure how a Hovercraft seat is booked when part of a ticket bought from a Rail ticket retailer be that online, TVM or over the counter.

Other than an event e.g. Isle of Wight (Music) Festival does the ferry / Fastcat ever run at full capacity now?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you want to reserve on a specific crossing with a through ticket for either you need to ring them up.

A side note on allocation - some may have seen the "not valid on the hovercraft" message showing on TVMs for seemingly totally unrelated journeys like something "up north" - this is because quite a few through tickets via the cat are routed Any Permitted so that restriction was added to that route! (There must surely be a better way! )

 

[DelW]

At busy times I'm not sure how a Hovercraft seat is booked when part of a ticket bought from a Rail ticket retailer be that online, TVM or over the counter.

Other than an event e.g. Isle of Wight (Music) Festival does the ferry / Fastcat ever run at full capacity now?

A train ticket routed via Hovertravel doesn't have a specific crossing or seat allocated, so boarding any given crossing is dependent on there being seats free. I have once had to wait in the "standby" queue and take a later crossing. To be fair, that was a summer Saturday morning, and Hovertravel added extra flights which cleared the queue quite quickly.

The cat usually has plenty of space even on summer weekends, unless there's a special event on, or there's been an interruption in the service.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

Given Hovertravel and Wightlink are AFAIK two totally seperate companies from an administration viewpoint even with the technology of 2023 the core issue is correctly allocating the Solent crossing part of the total fare per ticket when the route is chosen.

It makes one wonder how the Victorian and Edwardian railways shared the revenue from through working of passenger and goods trains. Oh, silly me, they had the Railway Clearing House, staffed by clerks who knew their business (so old-fashioned).
Pat

 

[SAPhil]

I see that, following the welcome reopening of Ryde Pier, SWR have put on their website the traditional timetable showing train services between London and Shanklin. Very good (although it’s a pity nobody thought to remove the now outdated text reference to buses replacing trains between Esplanade and Pierhead).

The timetable shows the normal connections between train and catamaran at Portsmouth Harbour (typically ten mins or so) and at Ryde Pier Head (about 5 mins). There is of course the caveat that these connections cannot be guaranteed, but they are shown in the timetable, and we regular users expect them to be met unless there are unusual circumstances affecting the cats, eg bad weather or naval shipping movements.

Journey planners, however, now seem to be applying minimum connection times of 20 minutes at both Portsmouth and Ryde. This produces completely absurd results. Passengers are being led to believe that they will have to spend over an hour waiting for connections at both Portsmouth Harbour and Ryde Pierhead.

There is also the point that very often the effect of these connection times is to show the rival Hovertravel route via Southsea as giving the fastest route, even when it isn’t really.

To take the example of someone planning a day trip from Waterloo to Shanklin (an excellent idea, of course). On the SWR timetable he can leave Waterloo at 0930 and arrive in Shanklin at 1210. If he chooses to return at 1814, he will arrive back at Waterloo at 2053. If he takes the journey planners as gospel, he will not arrive until an hour later; and returning home on the same 1814 Island Line train he will not get to Waterloo until a ridiculous 2331.

Someone actually doing these journeys is likely to get a pleasant surprise when they discover that the connections are much better than they expected. But that’s not the point. Regular travellers, and followers of this site, know what is going on and plan journeys accordingly. However, a non-expert thinking about a visit to the island will take the journey planner at face value and could well conclude that the journey is just too long.

In terms of travelling times, islanders are used to being as far away from London as somewhere near Exeter - the planners make it appear that we’re even more remote, more like Cornwall!

That's probably my fault (and probably other people as well)! I missed a connection when the train was 12 mins late so claimed delay repay because the itinery for the journey specified that particular train and connection. After some "discussions" they paid out but now all the itineries have ridiculously long connections for the boats. Same thing happens at Southampton.

 

[AlbertBeale]

It makes one wonder how the Victorian and Edwardian railways shared the revenue from through working of passenger and goods trains. Oh, silly me, they had the Railway Clearing House, staffed by clerks who knew their business (so old-fashioned).
Pat

And indeed in more recent times, when trains and ships around Europe were all a public service rather than rival profit-making entities, you could get a ticket from London to somewhere halfway across Europe which included a "boat coupon" in the clip of vouchers, and take any train to the coast, get on any boat using the boat coupon, and similarly onwards. Isn't "choice" and competition wonderful?

 

[Sm5]

There used to be a “somewhere” to IOW day travelcard before covid.
Does this still exist ?

(i found although it was on Network Rails website, no ticket machine would sell it, Trainline didnt used to sell it, and when I went to the ticket office they couldnt find it either).
I assume its a dead product now, but it felt dead back then too.

 

[Gloster]

There used to be a “somewhere” to IOW day travelcard before covid.
Does this still exist ?

(i found although it was on Network Rails website, no ticket machine would sell it, Trainline didnt used to sell it, and when I went to the ticket office they couldnt find it either).
I assume its a dead product now, but it felt dead back then too.

If you look at SWR’s Islandline subpage it mentions that the Island Line Day Ranger is still available at £6.70: this is Islandline only. There is also Hover Rover Rail that is sold for £25.40 by Hoverspeed at Southsea: it is not clear if this is one journey or wander where you want. The ticket that covered Islandline and the steam railway seems to have gone.

I will be in Ryde tomorrow or Thursday, so I will ask.

 

[hermit]

That's probably my fault (and probably other people as well)! I missed a connection when the train was 12 mins late so claimed delay repay because the itinery for the journey specified that particular train and connection. After some "discussions" they paid out but now all the itineries have ridiculously long connections for the boats. Same thing happens at Southampton.

I suspect you are right about the motivation for this change.

An example of a measure intended to benefit passengers - delay repay - in practice having the effect of degrading the usefulness of the service provided to passengers. And, if I am right about the discouraging effect on potential passengers, the loss of revenue to the railway might outweigh any savings on the delay repay front.

 

[Dougal2345]

The ticket that covered Islandline and the steam railway seems to have gone.

That one - Island Liner Day Rover - is still on the National Rail site (£23) and it seems can still be purchased on the SWR site.

(Not sure why it's "Liner" rather than "Line"... even "Lines" might make more sense...)

 

[mangyiscute]

I was looking at making a day trip to the Isle of Wight soon - I have done so once before and used the hovercraft, but this time i was looking at the Fastcat (Portsmouth Harbour to Ryde Pier Head) since it has much better connections to the train - are the connections at Ryde Pier Head feasible - like the train gets to Ryde Pier Head just 5 mins before the ferry leaves, assuming the train is on time, should I be worried about still missing the ferry. Also, on the Portsmouth side, there's one which gives a 2 min connection time, I am assuming that that is way too tight.

although it’s a pity nobody thought to remove the now outdated text reference to buses replacing trains between Esplanade and Pierhead

I've heard that after the summer it'll have to be shut again for a while since the work isn't actually anywhere near done.

 

[DelW]

I was looking at making a day trip to the Isle of Wight soon - I have done so once before and used the hovercraft, but this time i was looking at the Fastcat (Portsmouth Harbour to Ryde Pier Head) since it has much better connections to the train - are the connections at Ryde Pier Head feasible - like the train gets to Ryde Pier Head just 5 mins before the ferry leaves, assuming the train is on time, should I be worried about still missing the ferry. Also, on the Portsmouth side, there's one which gives a 2 min connection time, I am assuming that that is way too tight.

Five minutes from train to boat at Pier Head is perfectly feasible, it's a short walk and normally train passengers just join onto the back of the boarding queue.
Two minutes at Harbour isn't though - you *might* just make if the ferry docks on time, you're queued up ready to be first off, and you make a run for it. Five to ten minutes is a reasonable connection in that direction, ships are slower to disembark from than trains.

 

[wibble]

Journey planners, however, now seem to be applying minimum connection times of 20 minutes at both Portsmouth and Ryde. This produces completely absurd results. Passengers are being led to believe that they will have to spend over an hour waiting for connections at both Portsmouth Harbour and Ryde Pierhead.

I think that's due to Wightlink's requirement for foot passengers to check in at least 15min before departure. https://www.wightlink.co.uk/tickets/foot-passenger-tickets#checking-in

I doubt whether it's actually enforced by staff at Wightlink...

 

[Gloster]

I think that's due to Wightlink's requirement for foot passengers to check in at least 15min before departure. https://www.wightlink.co.uk/tickets/foot-passenger-tickets#checking-in

I doubt whether it's actually enforced by staff at Wightlink...

It is not: there is usually a dash off the Islandline train as soon as it stops at Pier Head to get to the ferry. However, it does mean if the train is even a couple of minutes late neither Islandline nor Wightlink have any liability. Wightlink will be more than happy to allow you to spend your time and, better, money in their cafe.

There used to be a “somewhere” to IOW day travelcard before covid.
Does this still exist ?

(i found although it was on Network Rails website, no ticket machine would sell it, Trainline didnt used to sell it, and when I went to the ticket office they couldnt find it either).
I assume its a dead product now, but it felt dead back then too.

It seems that both the Island Line rover tickets, the one with and the one without the Steam Railway, are still available and should be able to be purchased at both ticket offices and from the guard. Whether they are also sold on the mainland, even if only on South Western Railway, is unclear. The Hover Rover is available only from Hoverspeeed in Southsea.

 

[hermit]

It is not: there is usually a dash off the Islandline train as soon as it stops at Pier Head to get to the ferry. However, it does mean if the train is even a couple of minutes late neither Islandline nor Wightlink have any liability. Wightlink will be more than happy to allow you to spend your time and, better, money in their cafe.

My experience is that the connection from train to ferry at Pierhead is very rarely missed. If the train is a couple of minutes late the ferry will be held. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the other direction, where a slightly late running ferry quite often misses the departing train.

I agree that the Wightlink 15 minute check-in requirement is not the reason for the increased minimum connection times at Portsmouth and Ryde. As has been said, it is hardly ever enforced. Its purpose appears to be as a backside-covering provision that Wightlink can deploy if, for example, they are faced with more passengers than the ferry can accommodate. Fortunately, this rarely happens.

 

[david1212]

My experience is that the connection from train to ferry at Pierhead is very rarely missed. If the train is a couple of minutes late the ferry will be held. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the other direction, where a slightly late running ferry quite often misses the departing train ...

Understandable given that due to numerous shortcomings that have been discussed in detail on other threads arrival of the Ryde > Shankin trains at Brading on time is essential to maintain the current timetable. If there was slack so that leaving Ryde Pier Head up to 5 minutes late could be recovered during the next hour the train could then be held for a slightly late ferry.

I can't recall where now but I did read that back I think in the VEC-TIS era a train left Shanklin several minutes late but while shaken more than normal due to hard driving combined with swift platform work the passengers still made the connection to the ferry.

 

[321over360]

That one - Island Liner Day Rover - is still on the National Rail site (£23) and it seems can still be purchased on the SWR site.

(Not sure why it's "Liner" rather than "Line"... even "Lines" might make more sense...)

With the Island Liner Day Rover, I know om the National Rail website it says unlimited on the Island line but only a return on the IOWSR, is it true that it is only a single return journey on the Steam Railway or does it actually have unlimited on there too given the IOWSR day ticket is only £1 less if bought on the day at the station.

 

[cav1975]

With the Island Liner Day Rover, I know om the National Rail website it says unlimited on the Island line but only a return on the IOWSR, is it true that it is only a single return journey on the Steam Railway or does it actually have unlimited on there too given the IOWSR day ticket is only £1 less if bought on the day at the station.

You'll be able to use it as a rover on the steam railway.

 

[321over360]

You'll be able to use it as a rover on the steam railway.

Thank you for the reply, that is good to know it is a rover on the steam railway too

 

[Gloster]

With the Island Liner Day Rover, I know om the National Rail website it says unlimited on the Island line but only a return on the IOWSR, is it true that it is only a single return journey on the Steam Railway or does it actually have unlimited on there too given the IOWSR day ticket is only £1 less if bought on the day at the station.

I asked in Ryde Esplanade and they told me that the ticket (whatever it is called) is valid as a rover on Islandline, but only for a single return journey on the Steam Railway. Presumably the Steam Railway does not want abstraction from its own £19.50 rover.

 

[DelW]

The steam line runs through very pleasant scenery, and the trains are wonderful period pieces, but personally I've always found that a round trip over the full length, combined with a stop off at Haven Street in one or both directions, is quite sufficient for me

 

[Gloster]

With a £2 bus fare and a bus every twenty minutes (half-hourly on Sundays and bank holidays) past Wootton Steam Railway you have a number of possibilities. Remember that if coming from Ryde you want the 9 via Staplers, not via Medina.

 

[cav1975]

I asked in Ryde Esplanade and they told me that the ticket (whatever it is called) is valid as a rover on Islandline, but only for a single return journey on the Steam Railway. Presumably the Steam Railway does not want abstraction from its own £19.50 rover.

I've double checked with the team at the Steam Railway. Despite what it says on the SWR website, Island Liners are accepted as 3rd class rover tickets on the IWSR like all other full line return tickets on the IWSR. I suspect that the wording on SWR's website dates back to the immediately post-Covid time when social distancing caused the introduction of restrictions on IWSR tickets.

I'm following up through the correct channles to try to get the wording changed.

PS - Sadly, the No. 9 (via Staplers) bus to/from Wootton is significantly more reliable that Island Line at the moment.

Coming back on topic. The journey planner connection times to and from the Island are a scandal and must be depressing demand to some extent. Something for the MP?

 

[Gloster]

Thank you for the reply, that is good to know it is a rover on the steam railway too

I've double checked with the team at the Steam Railway. Despite what it says on the SWR website, Island Liners are accepted as 3rd class rover tickets on the IWSR like all other full line return tickets on the IWSR. I suspect that the wording on SWR's website dates back to the immediately post-Covid time when social distancing caused the introduction of restrictions on IWSR tickets.

I'm following up through the correct channles to try to get the wording changed.

PS - Sadly, the No. 9 (via Staplers) bus to/from Wootton is significantly more reliable that Island Line at the moment.

Coming back on topic. The journey planner connection times to and from the Island are a scandal and must be depressing demand to some extent. Something for the MP?

I asked again at Ryde Esplanade and in the last few days they have had confirmation that the rover that includes the Steam Railway (Ranger?) can be used as a rover on the Steam Railway. It seems that it has caught up with a change to the Steam Railway’s ticketing policy. (It is possible that my previous visit caused the ofiice to ask for clarity from higher up: my good deed for the day!)

 

[cav1975]

I asked again at Ryde Esplanade and in the last few days they have had confirmation that the rover that includes the Steam Railway (Ranger?) can be used as a rover on the Steam Railway. It seems that it has caught up with a change to the Steam Railway’s ticketing policy. (It is possible that my previous visit caused the ofiice to ask for clarity from higher up: my good deed for the day!)

Thanks for your support - there have certainly been two way communications prompted by this thread. The national rail website has also been updated.

Island Liner Day Rover | National Rail

Special offer: Island Liner Day Rover. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Overview​

A day's unlimited travel on Island Line and Isle of Wight Steam Railway

Details​

A rover ticket offering:

• A day's unlimited travel on Island Line services
• A day's unlimited travel on Island of Wight Steam Railway services. (change at Smallbrook Jn for the steam railway)