Consumption of Alcohol on trains

[pethadine82]

Its that time of year where lots of people will be flocking to the capital. Many will take the train, and "session" before they hit the bars and clubs in London.

Is it illegal to drink alcohol on trains that you have brought from home, or can one drink as long as they are not deemed to be a menace to the public.
When there are football matches I have seen cops confiscate alcohol from members of the public at stations.

Many thanks

 

[ainsworth74]

Perfectly legal unless a specific restriction has been put in place preventing the consumption of alcohol on board. The relevant Byelaw is:

4. Intoxication and possession of intoxicating liquor

(1) No person shall enter or remain on the railway where such person is unfit
to enter or remain on the railway as a result of being in a state of intoxication.

(2) Where reasonable notice is, or has been, given prohibiting intoxicating liquor on any train service, no person shall have any intoxicating liquor with him on it, or attempt to enter such a train with intoxicating liquor with him.

(3) Where an authorised person reasonably believes that any person is unfit to enter or remain on the railway, or has with him intoxicating liquor contrary to Byelaw 4(2), an authorised person may:

(i) require him to leave the railway; and

(ii) prevent him entering or remaining on the railway until an authorised person is satisfied that he has no intoxicating liquor with him and/or is no longer in an unfit condition.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Is it the true that they intend to have an alcohol ban on Crossrail services ?

 

[island]

And Virgin and other TOCs frequently put up such a restriction on train services where there is likely to be football traffic.

 

[MadCommuter]

ScotRail recently introduced a ban on all services between 9pm and 10am.

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/alcohol-ban

 

[MidnightFlyer]

There's also a blanket ban on some Valley lines - IIRC at all times north of Pontypridd, and also from 2100-1000 (or similar) on ScotRail trains, though that's only a few months old.

 

[ert47]

Is it the true that they intend to have an alcohol ban on Crossrail services ?

Im guessing that Crossrail will be under TfLs jurisdiction. As drinking is banned on the underground - I can see it happening on Crossrail.

Anyone know if drinking is banned on LO services?

 

[Dave1987]

Despite this byelaw people in a total state of intoxication are allowed to enter and remain, some on methadone aswell, and then people seem surprised when they fall between the platform and a moving train... :roll:

This is a big problem on the railways, late at night and v early morning trains with people who are so drunk they don't know where they are and become very aggressive when you tell them the train is terminating as it is the end of the line. I hate drunk ppl in trains they are a complete nuisance!

 

[asylumxl]

This is a big problem on the railways, late at night and v early morning trains with people who are so drunk they don't know where they are and become very aggressive when you tell them the train is terminating as it is the end of the line. I hate drunk ppl in trains they are a complete nuisance!

Admission of the issue would also mean admission of the issue outside the railways in everyday life in my opinion.

The government knows how much binge drinking costs the NHS, but you note they don't proactively try and prevent supermarkets selling booze dirt cheap.

 

[Flamingo]

Not a lot they could do, except maybe in the way of education, and maybe an increase in enforcement of the existing bylaws.

 

[Westboy]

Admission of the issue would also mean admission of the issue outside the railways in everyday life in my opinion.

The government knows how much binge drinking costs the NHS, but you note they don't proactively try and prevent supermarkets selling booze dirt cheap.

The home office are currently consulting on the level to set minimum alcohol pricing (not the principle, which will happen regardless). They propose 45p per unit.

You can always contribute to that consultation.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/drugs/alcohol/alcohol-pricing/

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/consultations/alcohol-consultation/

 

[asylumxl]

Not a lot they could do, except maybe in the way of education, and maybe an increase in enforcement of the existing bylaws.

I think even a slightly increased BTP presence would do wonders. I understand there are not many BTP officers about, but I'm sure that most of the traveling public would appreciate it. I think a lot of people can feel intimiated by large groups of drunkard people returning from big events etc.

 

[Searle]

Anyone know if drinking is banned on LO services?

On 1 June 2008, the drinking of alcoholic beverages was banned on Tube and London Overground trains, buses, trams, Docklands Light Railway and all stations operated by TfL across London but not those operated by other rail companies.

From Wikipedia :P

Also, alcohol is banned on services from York to Middlesborough, due to previous antisocial behaviour

 

[Flamingo]

I think even a slightly increased BTP presence would do wonders. I understand there are not many BTP officers about, but I'm sure that most of the traveling public would appreciate it. I think a lot of people can feel intimiated by large groups of drunkard people returning from big events etc.

Agreed. The main BTP visible presence in my experience is at 11am, twelve hours later they are nowhere to be seen.

This was even acknowledged a few years ago by a new Chief Constable who said one of his priorities was to change the staffing and shift structure so as to reverse it. He obviously was unsuccessful.

In my experience, the main role of BTP is to review CCTV footage (and then decide there is not enough evidence to proceed). After dark, they only have a token presence, certainly nothing like a deterrent.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Agreed. The main BTP visible presence in my experience is at 11am, twelve hours later they are nowhere to be seen.

This was even acknowledged a few years ago by a new Chief Constable who said one of his priorities was to change the staffing and shift structure so as to reverse it. He obviously was unsuccessful.

In my experience, the main role of BTP is to review CCTV footage (and then decide there is not enough evidence to proceed). After dark, they only have a token presence, certainly nothing like a deterrent.

In all fairness there is a strong BTP presence in and around London termini in the late evening.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Surely the problem isn't drinking on short services? The people you are talking abou are drunk already and the can on the train makes no odds.

This especially true on LU services and I see it as a pointless law that is not enforced as long as you don't drink at the barrier, there are no people on the train so what is the point.

Now I certainly don't make a habit of it on the tube but I don't see why I should to conform with these laws that are put in place as a decoy to the real solution and that is putting people on the trains to enforce proper behaviour.

I do go to football matches and we do enjoy a few beers en route and on our glum return. We are capable of doing this in a perfectly orderly manner.

Sick to the back teeth of these blanket laws including managing prices.

Time to punish the perpetrators not shackle the masses who they are too scared to take on directly.

 

[Dave1987]

I have no problem with ppl going out and having a drink and travelling by train as I do this myself. I do not think the answer is minimum pricing of alcohol etc as that penalises responsible drinkers. I have a problem with ppl who get absolutely paraletic and then think its the rail staff's fault you fell asleep and miss your stop. And then when your refuse to let them sleep on the station over night you get a load of abuse.

 

[asylumxl]

In all fairness there is a strong BTP presence in and around London termini in the late evening.

Well I'd say I have experience of late night travel from the majority of London termini. There may be BTP around the station but it's rare to see them on the train where any behaviour seems to be open season.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I've never seen a late night BTP on the Liv Cambridge line. That said in 7 years I haven't seen any alcohol related strava on my line.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Well I'd say I have experience of late night travel from the majority of London termini. There may be BTP around the station but it's rare to see them on the train where any behaviour seems to be open season.

If a BTP officer was to travel on a late train from Waterloo it might prove very difficult for them to get back to the 'Nick. It's also worth noting that many BTP officers patrol in plain clothes making it hard for you to spot them.

 

[VauxhallandI]

If a BTP officer was to travel on a late train from Waterloo it might prove very difficult for them to get back to the 'Nick. It's also worth noting that many BTP officers patrol in plain clothes making it hard for you to spot them.

I was witness to a terrible assault on the train near Southbury one night. Interestingly enough after the police arrived one other witness proudly announced he was an off duty police officer.

Shame he didn't get his shiny badge out whilst the guy was lathering the ****e out of the two blokes

 

[Flamingo]

In all fairness there is a strong BTP presence in and around London termini in the late evening.

I've know the exact numbers of BTP on duty in Paddington, Reading, South Wales and Bristol on occasions in the late evenings and the geographical area they have to cover (I won't go into more details for security reasons), and unfortunately strong is not the word I would use. I wish it was.

Also, I have experienced more than once when the police in attendance (both BTP and local) have only been interested in putting the drunk troublemakers ONTO my train to shift them off their patch. As one colleague once put it when asked to allow a gang to travel as "They would only cause trouble if we keep them here, and they have promised to be quiet now" - "They are quiet now because there are a load of you, all wearing stab vests, with batons and CS spray. After you go, I'm on my own, with a whistle!"

 

[RichmondCommu]

I've know the exact numbers of BTP on duty in Paddington, Reading, South Wales and Bristol on occasions in the late evenings and the geographical area they have to cover (I won't go into more details for security reasons), and unfortunately strong is not the word I would use. I wish it was.

In all fairness Reading, South Wales and Bristol are not London termini. As stated my experiences are based on London termini.

 

[Flamingo]

In all fairness Reading, South Wales and Bristol are not London termini. As stated my experiences were based on London termini.

True, and I'm very glad they seem to have an adequate presence in your area. They do not on my patch even on the London-Reading area, and what there is keeps a very low profile.

 

[RichmondCommu]

They do not on my patch even on the London-Reading area, and what there is keeps a very low profile.

I'm afraid much of this is down to a lack of funding rather than the will to do something about the problems that sometimes beset policing of the railway network.

I would be interested to read how you define a "very low profile".

 

[Flamingo]

I would be interested to read how you define a "very low profile".

I never see them.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I never see them.

Well that's not a low profile, that's none existant?

 

[Flamingo]

Well, I'm presuming they are somewhere, just not anywhere that they can be seen (or will see anything they may have to take action over).

To be fair, in South Wales the early train from Swansea was always a bear-pit on a Thurs-Fri-Sat morning, and they now (with some persuasion, I have to add) do have a very visible presence at that train.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Well, I'm presuming they are somewhere, just not anywhere that they can be seen (or will see anything they may have to take action over).

To be fair, in South Wales the early train from Swansea was always a bear-pit on a Thurs-Fri-Sat morning, and they now (with some persuasion, I have to add) do have a very visible presence at that train.

In all fairness sometimes they are to be found on the station concourse rather than say on the platform.

With regard to your second point they have at least done their best to be pro-active. Once again, please try and remember that their resources are limited.

 

[Ediswan]

In all fairness there is a strong BTP presence in and around London termini in the late evening.

Are you sure it was BTP ? I agree there are police there, but those I have seen have always been local. Same with the local stations. I see police when needed, but always local.

BTP are so rare they would score maximum points in an I-spy book.

Somewhere I saw FCC proudly claiming a dedicated force of 24(?) BTP. You need 5 employees to fill one post 365x24.