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Convalidating Italian rail tickets

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urbophile

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I am aware of the rules that say tickets are not valid until they have been convalidated at one of the machines on station platforms. I am also aware that failure to do this can result in hefty fine. However, recently I and my wife travelled from Assisi to Fiumicino Aeroporto, changing at Roma Tiburtina. The TVM at Assisi issued two separate tickets each, which I would have stamped together at Assisi had I not thought to check, and discovered that the ticket from Tiburtina to Fiuimicino was only valid for 90 minutes from the time of validation, so it would have expired before we got to Rome. No problem, I thought, just stamp it at one of the machines which they always have at the bottom of the stairs – from my experience of other Italian stations - in the connecting subway at Tiburtina. The first train was running slightly late, and arrived with minutes to spare before the connection for the airport. It wouldn't have been a disaster if we had missed it, because the next was due in 20 minutes, but we thought we would catch it if we could. But no validation machines were to be found in the obvious place at the platform entrances; we looked around on the platform but didn't see any there either.

So we boarded the train with 'invalid' tickets. Eventually the conductor came along to check, and I explained the situation in my best (far from perfect) Italian. Fortunately he was courteous and reasonable, and accepted my explanation while saying that there were machines on the platform at Tiburtina (which we failed to see). He endorsed our tickets with a signature and we didn't have to pay a fine.

So, no problem. But several questions: [1] Why not issue a through ticket for the whole journey Assisi - Fiumicino? [2] Why does a busy interchange station like Tiburtina not have easily visible machines in the obvious places? [3] How do passengers with little fluency in Italian, who might not be familiar with the regulations, fare when confronted by a 'jobsworth' inspector unlike the one we encountered? [4] What is the advantage of the Italian (and French) system of convalidating over the British one of simply issuing dated tickets?
 
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AlexNL

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1) You mention that tickets to FCO are only valid for 90 minutes after validation. I stand to remember that the ticket I got issued by a Trenitalia TVM a week ago was valid for a longer time.

The 90 minutes limit is likely to have something to do with fraud prevention (giving/selling tickets to others after using them) and by issuing two tickets, you won't run into problems while traveling to the airport.

2) No idea. Maybe the validators are placed elsewhere in a spot where they're less intrusive to passenger flows.

4) I think it's a convenience thing: by issuing undated tickets a TVM can let you buy multiple tickets for the same route in one go. Whenever you want to travel on that route, you just take a ticket from your stash and stamp it - no queueing required.

The Dutch railways also issued undated tickets until a few years ago, when they changed to smartcard travel.
 

Techniquest

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I'm travelling from Tirano (having done the Bernina Express in from Chur) to Milan later this month. Do I take it this means my ticket which I intend to buy from the TVM needs to be stamped too? I've not yet travelled on an Italian train so this is new territory for me.

What do the validators look like? I suspect they'll be relatively obvious when I see them, but it would be nice to know what to look for.
 

eastwestdivide

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... [3] How do passengers with little fluency in Italian, who might not be familiar with the regulations, fare when confronted by a 'jobsworth' inspector unlike the one we encountered? ...
They fare badly in my experience. I saw an inspector literally rip some unstamped tickets to shreds in front of some unfortunate tourists.

I'm travelling from Tirano (having done the Bernina Express in from Chur) to Milan later this month. Do I take it this means my ticket which I intend to buy from the TVM needs to be stamped too? I've not yet travelled on an Italian train so this is new territory for me.

What do the validators look like? I suspect they'll be relatively obvious when I see them, but it would be nice to know what to look for.
Seat 61 has a photo alongside explanations: https://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.htm#validator
You don't need to validate "advance" print-at-home tickets (or interrail passes obviously).
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I was in Italy this week and bought some walk-on tickets (from ATMs) in Sicily.
They say on the reverse, in English, that they must be validated before use or penalties apply, but also:
In case of failure or lack of validators please apply to the ticket office, or promptly after getting on board, to the train crew.
The tickets also say "Valid 4 hours from validation".
I found the ATMs were essentially the same type as used extensively here (S&M), but much less user-friendly (if that were possible ;)).

I also found myself on the Circumetnea railway at Catania (not Trenitalia), bought a ticket and didn't think to validate it.
The conductor came round and simply wrote the date on the back - maybe they don't use validators.
Great trip by the way.
 

urbophile

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The 90-minute time limit is on tickets for the Rome metropolitan area. You're right that the normal limit is 4 hours.

I found the ticket machines helpful to use but they insist on you choosing your preferred departure time, even for flexible tickets (the time doesn't appear on the tickets anyway until you validate it). That just makes the process slower, but they seem to have twice as many machines per station as we do in the UK.
 

Techniquest

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Useful to know that, thanks for the gen :)

I had it in my head I was flying out of Malpensa, but I'm leaving from Bergamo which is so much further out than I thought. This means more planning than expected, but equally it means more Trenitalia coverage so I guess it'll be fine. Unless I go for the coach, which is more frequent.

At least now I know what to look for with the validators!
 

Bletchleyite

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The key advantage of "compostage" is that it allows period tickets to be issued for short journeys without the risk of them being used as de-facto season tickets i.e. re-used. This can be for one ticket or for a carnet, without the latter having issues with whether someone has falsified it or not (cf many threads on here which really recommend against the UK style carnets you validate in biro).
 

axlecounter

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What you can always do in Italy when you have some ticketing issue is look immediately for someone from the traincrew when on the train. They'll most likely issue a ticket/stamp your ticket/etc without any problem.
 

AlexNL

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Last week I wanted to travel to Milan from the apartment which I rented in Magenta. The ticket office was closed and the TVM was out of order, so I just went to the train and approached the guard. He sold me a ticket at the same rate as what I would've paid when buying at the station.

 

urbophile

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What you can always do in Italy when you have some ticketing issue is look immediately for someone from the traincrew when on the train. They'll most likely issue a ticket/stamp your ticket/etc without any problem.
Depends on the train of course. If it's jam-packed there is little chance of you finding them or vice-versa.
 

Iskra

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Useful to know that, thanks for the gen :)

I had it in my head I was flying out of Malpensa, but I'm leaving from Bergamo which is so much further out than I thought. This means more planning than expected, but equally it means more Trenitalia coverage so I guess it'll be fine. Unless I go for the coach, which is more frequent.

At least now I know what to look for with the validators!

I flew into Bergamo airport last year and then headed into Milan, it's a trek but easy by train (LHCS!) from Miliano Centrale to Bergamo and then there is a local bus from the train station to the airport. If you're really struggling there are plenty of taxis outside the train station for the short trip, but do be aware that Italian taxi fares seem to be extortionate. Always agree the fare before travelling. What are your plans in Italy? It's a fun network with cheap fares :)

Validators are normally pretty obvious in my experience.
 

Iskra

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Depends on the train of course. If it's jam-packed there is little chance of you finding them or vice-versa.

Usually they only sell enough tickets for the seats on that train, unlike Britain, so Corbyn-esque 'jam-packed' scenarios do not exist in my experience apart from on Metro's and some local services.
 

Bletchleyite

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Usually they only sell enough tickets for the seats on that train, unlike Britain, so Corbyn-esque 'jam-packed' scenarios do not exist in my experience apart from on Metro's and some local services.

Local/regional services (all of them) in Italy and France do not do reservations and can just as easily get overcrowded as UK ones. Tickets are typically valid for a period of time from validation or all day on the day of validation.

Compulsory reservations have disadvantages, such as entire routes being booked up for weeks around busy times like Christmas.
 

Techniquest

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I flew into Bergamo airport last year and then headed into Milan, it's a trek but easy by train (LHCS!) from Miliano Centrale to Bergamo and then there is a local bus from the train station to the airport. If you're really struggling there are plenty of taxis outside the train station for the short trip, but do be aware that Italian taxi fares seem to be extortionate. Always agree the fare before travelling. What are your plans in Italy? It's a fun network with cheap fares :)

Validators are normally pretty obvious in my experience.

Ooh, the fact it's loco haulage has persuaded me not to use the coach! My plan for Italy is basically to arrive at Tirano from Chur on the Bernina Express, then into Milan for food etc and overnight base camp, then to Bergamo for the flight home.
 

AlexNL

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If you're looking for a place to stay in the Milan area, I can recommend Residenza Sorriso in Magenta. The apartment is nice and the owner is very friendly and helpful. He'll even come pick you up from the airport or train station!

From Magenta to Milano Centrale it's about half an hour by train, a single ride costs € 3,60. You can get there either by Trenord EMU, or by Trenitalia Regionale (LHCS, super long!).
 

urbophile

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I flew into Bergamo airport last year and then headed into Milan, it's a trek but easy by train (LHCS!) from Miliano Centrale to Bergamo and then there is a local bus from the train station to the airport. If you're really struggling there are plenty of taxis outside the train station for the short trip, but do be aware that Italian taxi fares seem to be extortionate. Always agree the fare before travelling. What are your plans in Italy? It's a fun network with cheap fares :)

Validators are normally pretty obvious in my experience.

Bergamo is a beautiful city well worth a visit on its own. if you're doing that, the train from Milan is the obvious way. (What does LHCS mean by the way? The train we used was brand new and jointly (or even solely?) owned by Swiss Railways.) But if you just want to get between central Milan and the airport, one of the various frequent coach links are much quicker and less hassle.

I've never had any problem finding validators except at Roma Tiburtina! But also beware, at Fiumicino there are automatic ticket barriers and you'd think they would automatically validate your ticket and do away with the need for stamping machines, but no. You need to use both.
 

Joe Paxton

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LHCS - Locomotive-hauled coaching stock, i.e. a 'traditional' train where a locomotive on one end (or sometimes two, one on each end) provides the motive power, as opposed to motors underneath and incorporated into coaches as is the case with EMUs, DMUs and DEMUs.
 

30907

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Ooh, the fact it's loco haulage has persuaded me not to use the coach! My plan for Italy is basically to arrive at Tirano from Chur on the Bernina Express, then into Milan for food etc and overnight base camp, then to Bergamo for the flight home.

Depending on your arrival time/day in Tirano, you could consider the alternative route by midibus to Edolo and then train via Lake Iseo to Brescia
http://www.muoversi.regione.lombardia.it/planner/

However the normal route along Lake Como is scenic too.
 
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