Conwy Valley Line

[Llanigraham]

Their is millions of tonnes of slag at the top end that can be used in furnaces so it would be foolish to not consider this as a business option to keep it off the roads that are not the widest and safest.

Correction, it is not "slag", that is either furnace or in Wales coal mine waste. What is present around Blaenau is slate waste.

 

[bleeder4]

Am I right in thinking there is no freight on the line? In which case I don't know why ballast is needed at all, a lightweight tram line with slabs would do whenever some ballast gets washed away.

It's popular with charters though, which are usually heavy trains, far heavier than the little units that normally shuffle along the line. For example, I'm going along it in June with 2 Class 47s and 11 coaches.

 

[Steve B]

Their is millions of tonnes of slag at the top end that can be used in furnaces so it would be foolish to not consider this as a business option to keep it off the roads that are not the widest and safest.

The tips at Blaenau are made of slate waste - which doesn't burn. It can have it's uses, and if there was sufficient demand in the right places could be moved by train.

 

[Russel]

In reality, what are the chances of freight returning to the Conwy Valley line?

I can't imagine it's all that high.

 

[krus_aragon]

In reality, what are the chances of freight returning to the Conwy Valley line?

I can't imagine it's all that high.

The two main possible sources are slate (waste) and nuclear traffic (to Trawsfynydd).

 

[Krokodil]

The tips at Blaenau are made of slate waste - which doesn't burn. It can have it's uses, and if there was sufficient demand in the right places could be moved by train.

Slate waste from Penrhyn Quarry is currently being loaded onto trains at Llandudno Junction.

In reality, what are the chances of freight returning to the Conwy Valley line?

I can't imagine it's all that high.

There's talk of moving low-level waste from Trawsfynydd out by rail. At some point the site will be flattened and they may wish to use rail to move the rubble, again to reduce lorry movements on local roads. Rolls-Royce are developing Small Modular Reactors and Traws has been mooted as a potential site, I'm not sure if those will ship out waste while in operation like full-size reactors do.

Then there's slate waste, if the market grows it may be worth loading in Blaenau itself rather than roading the waste down the A470 to Junction for loading with the Penrhyn waste.

 

[Meerkat]

Wasn’t there a plan to ship out slate waste that was stopped because it caused too much vibration to residents near the line?
Think there is a weird heritage conflict between wanting to preserve the grey wasteland the slate industry has left as opposed to removing the slate waste and making the place greener.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Think there is a weird heritage conflict between wanting to preserve the grey wasteland the slate industry has left as opposed to removing the slate waste and making the place greener.

That's undoubtedly true especially as the Eryri slate landscape now has World Heritage status. Personally I find the waste heaps strangely attractive - but I'm not sure I'd like to live next to them!

 

[Meerkat]

That's undoubtedly true especially as the Eryri slate landscape now has World Heritage status. Personally I find the waste heaps strangely attractive - but I'm not sure I'd like to live next to them!

Bizarre. Maybe a little bit of it but when it’s everywhere it’s utterly depressing in the rain…..which seems to be most of the time there!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Wasn’t there a plan to ship out slate waste that was stopped because it caused too much vibration to residents near the line?
Think there is a weird heritage conflict between wanting to preserve the grey wasteland the slate industry has left as opposed to removing the slate waste and making the place greener.

That's undoubtedly true especially as the Eryri slate landscape now has World Heritage status. Personally I find the waste heaps strangely attractive - but I'm not sure I'd like to live next to them!

There is some detail (with pictures) here on the trial trains. The following extract taken from that page. The trials were way back in 2002!

A new terminal, for which planning permission has been granted, would be built at Rhiwbryfdir. The terminal would be served by a conveyor belt from Oakley Quarry on the West side of the railway. The conveyor would cross over the former Ffestiniog Railway Dinas Branch and the Conwy Valley line to the new terminal. The rock would come from the inner part of the quarry and not be taken from the waste heap visible. This is Y Domen Fawr and is a listed structure.

I thought it was a Scheduled Ancient Monument rather than a listed structure.

Y Domen Fawr translates as The Big Dump.

 

[Krokodil]

Wasn’t there a plan to ship out slate waste that was stopped because it caused too much vibration to residents near the line?

That was the claim, though a local Freightliner Heavy Haul driver who attended the public meeting asked the attendees whether they'd slept well that night. None of them noticed the ballast train that went through in the middle of the night.

Think there is a weird heritage conflict between wanting to preserve the grey wasteland the slate industry has left as opposed to removing the slate waste and making the place greener.

If quarry companies wish to continue quarrying, they have to make good the exhausted land at the same rate that they are digging fresh land up.

 

[DelW]

There's talk of moving low-level waste from Trawsfynydd out by rail. At some point the site will be flattened and they may wish to use rail to move the rubble, again to reduce lorry movements on local roads. Rolls-Royce are developing Small Modular Reactors and Traws has been mooted as a potential site, I'm not sure if those will ship out waste while in operation like full-size reactors do.

The problem with that would be the cost of rehabilitating the line beyond Blaenau. I remember looking at the accessible pounts of the line a decade or more ago, and it was getting pretty overgrown then. Unless someone has been doing some work since, I imagine there are bushes and even trees growing through the track by now.

IIRC the track was bullhead rail on timber sleepers, so it's likely to need complete relaying - it wouldn't be quite on the scale of East - West Rail, but there'll be similarities.

At a guess, it would need:

• Lift and scrap existing track
• Use road plant on the old ballast to cut and remove vegetation
• Rehabilitate drainage and culverts
• Remove old ballast to formation level
• Lay geotextile and fresh ballast
• Lay new track

It could presumably operate with one train in section, locked in at BF, so wouldn't need much signalling other than maybe for the level crossings.

Rebuilding the Leven line (double track and stations, but slightly shorter) was costed at £117m. Taking out stations, most signalling, and the second track, would still be likely to leave a cost of over £50m. Would the potential power station traffic ever justify that sort of expense?

 

[Meerkat]

Rebuilding the Leven line (double track and stations, but slightly shorter) was costed at £117m. Taking out stations, most signalling, and the second track, would still be likely to leave a cost of over £50m. Would the potential power station traffic ever justify that sort of expense?

That would only be a small part of the huge budget for a power station, and wouldn’t they need the line to bring in construction materials?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Rebuilding the Leven line (double track and stations, but slightly shorter) was costed at £117m. Taking out stations, most signalling, and the second track, would still be likely to leave a cost of over £50m. Would the potential power station traffic ever justify that sort of expense?

If any sort of new reactor was to be installed I reckon they would regardless of the cost. Transporting significant quantities of nuclear material by road is not likely to be acceptable for a huge swathe of both safety and perception reasons.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If any sort of new reactor was to be installed I reckon they would regardless of the cost. Transporting significant quantities of nuclear material by road is not likely to be acceptable for a huge swathe of both safety and perception reasons.

In past years, if a nuclear reactor was planned, was rail connections to the site always part of the strategic plan during the construction works if an existing railway line was reasonably near to the site?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In past years, if a nuclear reactor was planned, was rail connections to the site always part of the strategic plan during the construction works if an existing railway line was reasonably near to the site?

I think further than that - only sites feasible to access by rail are considered. Are there any sites not accessible by rail?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think further than that - only sites feasible to access by rail are considered. Are there any sites not accessible by rail?

The one that I had in mind was that of the Dounreay reactor site using fast-breeder technology that was commissioned in the 1950s and is situated nine miles west of Thurso. I was told that a ten-year run-down was due to start in 2023.

 

[Meerkat]

A power station in Snowdonia is going to have enough planning issues, no Way could they fight through bringing everything in by road when there is a railway nearby.
Was the railway used to build the original power station And was the Bala line still operational then?
How many freight trains could the Conwy valley line take per day?

The one that I had in mind was that of the Dounreay reactor site using fast-breeder technology that was commissioned in the 1950s and is situated nine miles west of Thurso. I was told that a ten-year run-down was due to start in 2023.

Dounreay was experimental wasn’t it? So they built it a long way from cities, yet still within reach of the railway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A power station in Snowdonia is going to have enough planning issues

I think there having been one there already will help its case. But the nature of the roads would make transport potentially quite unsafe by road.

 

[DelW]

That would only be a small part of the huge budget for a power station, and wouldn’t they need the line to bring in construction materials?

There will be a close focus on minimising all costs (aka value engineering). "It's only another £50m while we're at it" is a recipe for runaway cost overruns.

In past years, if a nuclear reactor was planned, was rail connections to the site always part of the strategic plan during the construction works if an existing railway line was reasonably near to the site?

Existing nuclear sites were mostly planned, under construction or built by the Beeching era, so it was relatively easy simply to keep branch lines that would otherwise have been closed (e.g. Leiston, Lydd, and no doubt many others).

I think further than that - only sites feasible to access by rail are considered. Are there any sites not accessible by rail?

Hinkley Point - the distance from there to the transload at Bridgwater is more than that from Trawsfynydd to Blaenau Ffestiniog. And the A470 runs directly between Trawsfynydd and Blaenau, unlike the minor roads to Hinkley Point (though they may have been upgraded by the power station contractors).

 

[Meole]

Given "winter" lasts until the end of May according to the railway, I suspect that isn't quite true.

I can imagine a lot of people wanting to use that service in April and May if the weather is fine, for example.

The seasonal restriction applies to the Cambrian coast but not to the under used Conwy valley route, the coast is far too busy in summer for free tickets to be allowed.

 

[Llandudno]

The seasonal restriction applies to the Cambrian coast but not to the under used Conwy valley route, the coast is far too busy in summer for free tickets to be allowed.

Maybe the concessions on the Conwy Valley are valid all year because there are virtually no bus services between Betws y Coed and Blaenau Ffestiniog?

 

[nwales58]

Maybe the concessions on the Conwy Valley are valid all year because there are virtually no bus services between Betws y Coed and Blaenau Ffestiniog?

Dolwyddelan was the specific reason at the time, I recall.

Supposedly the largest village (or largest in Conwy?) where the concessionary travel pass had no value. Can't remember the year, post 2002 obviously, at that time it had no buses so pre-Express Motors X1.

Memory going, but at that time the concession was only for our local passes, all-Wales came later.

 

[175001]

A modular reactor at Trawsfynydd has been scrapped this morning, with the claim that the site is too small for one.

 

[Meerkat]

A modular reactor at Trawsfynydd has been scrapped this morning, with the claim that the site is too small for one.

Not entirely. This BBC article just says that Trawsfynydd has been taken out the first tranche of SMR sites due to a lack of quickly available space, but that it might still be a future site (summarised rather than quoted)

Trawsfynydd ruled out of new nuclear power plan

The site of a former nuclear power station in north Wales is ruled out of a plan for new reactors.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Krokodil]

Great British Nuclear (GBN) said Trawsfynydd, which had an operating nuclear power plant until 1991 "might not be able to deploy quite as quickly as some other potential sites".

Reading between the lines, the only suitable site is that occupied by the decommissioned power station. Until that site is cleared there is no space.

 

[snowball]

Reading between the lines, the only suitable site is that occupied by the decommissioned power station. Until that site is cleared there is no space.

That's decades away, isn't it?

 

[Pacef8]

At least ten years for stuff to bio degrade . I am surprised we are not discussing Wylfa as a option again .

 

[gazthomas]

Given "winter" lasts until the end of May according to the railway, I suspect that isn't quite true.

I can imagine a lot of people wanting to use that service in April and May if the weather is fine, for example.

OAP free tickets are available all year unlike the Cambrian line

 

[Meerkat]

At least ten years for stuff to bio degrade . I am surprised we are not discussing Wylfa as a option again .

They are - that is preferred to Trawsfynydd.