Corby & East Midlands Main Line

[Waddon]

I've always thought that off peak, it would be better to extend the Bletchley-Bedford service to Corby, which could possibly be done with just one additional DMU? EMT could still run peak hours direct services. That would have the dual advantage that passengers could connect directly with thameslink services at Bedford off peak, and it would give the Bletchley services one more DMU to operate their service at peak time, meaning a more frequent service on that line would be possible - and avoid those occasions where the whole Bedford to Bletchley line has to be shut because one of the two units is out of service (mind you, the taxi's they provide when the train is broken are very comfortable).

 

[robonuk]

Ta for the correction - never one to assume, but I did there. In any case, having a second unit at Corby ready to work an Up service sounds unnecessary - it certainly isn't a better use of the resources (units and crews) available.

It wouldn't really be a further unit as at the minute the same unit just idles in Kettering Station for 30minutes until the London Bound Service comes to Kettering. Then the idle unit carries on to Corby station 99% of the time empty. So in effect it would only idle in Corby sidings for just as long as it does on Kettering Platform 1. Or even better free another unit up, as the Northbound service could be turned straight round for the Southbound service 20minutes later. (at Corby)

With regards to the loops there are 2 siding north of Corby station and a further 2 lines going to Manton.

 

[EM2]

Maybe a simple fix to the Corby problem is to change the services round. The xx:00 service goes to Corby and the xx:30 service goes to Derby. Maybe if these are switched so the xx:00 goes to Derby and the xx:30 goes to Corby

So if you miss your new xx:00 to Derby, you have to wait until the xx:55 Sheffield?

 

[WillPS]

I too think Corby is terribly overserved. What it really needs is a local service - Kettering - Corby - Melton Mowbray - Derby or something along with a couple continuing on to St. Pancras.

 

[robonuk]

Corby isn't really that well served. When you look at it, you can only go South without having to change at Kettering. Maybe another idea is to incorporate the previous idea of running a local service.

eg. London - Leicester rather than London - Corby. Stations called at London, Luton, Bedford, Wellingborough, Kettering, Corby, Oakham, Melton Mowbray & Leicester.

Why couldn't EMT make a more Northern service to really attract people to Corby station? Goto maybe Nottingham / Sheffield missing Leicester out (easier & faster for drivers) I can't see EMT are short of MainLine units, we have inherited 4 units from Hull Trains. The network supports the 222's / HST's because they are diverted when the mainline is closed. That way EMT can introduce a direct London hourly service to Oakham & Melton Mowbray, something which EMT have done with other stations.

 

[Urobach]

He's not going to stop is he?

 

[asylumxl]

He's not going to stop is he?

Doubt it.

 

[The Planner]

eg. London - Leicester rather than London - Corby. Stations called at London, Luton, Bedford, Wellingborough, Kettering, Corby, Oakham, Melton Mowbray & Leicester.

Doesnt help that Corby to Manton is absolute block, 11 miles with some nice sections of 20mph track. You'd get 3 trains at best an hour up there, and then the freights get in the way as they are even slower and then the single leads at Corby and Manton !! Then there is some more block signalling until around the Frisby area. Far from an easy task, you may get a bi-hourly service out of it.

That way EMT can introduce a direct London hourly service to Oakham & Melton Mowbray, something which EMT have done with other stations.

There is an OA operator sniffing about for that sort of service but it is back of a fag packet stage at the mo.

 

[Kneedown]

A shuttle service is out of the question.

East Midlands Trains have to operate an hourly service to London St Pancras from Corby Station, as this was a requirement of who ever took the franchise on from Midland MainLine. Effectivly if they only run a shuttle service then they are in breach of the franchise contract.

It depends on the wording of the franchise. Does it say "A direct service to London must be provided hourly" or does it say "An hourly service to London"
If it's the latter then as long as there is a connection at Kettering a shuttle would be within the rules.

 

[robonuk]

The terms of the franchise are has to have a direct service to London. These were written in as early as 2002 when the original planning went in for Corby Station.

I beleive what EMT do in rush hour is only run the shuttle as it is impossible to get into St Pancras. When I went on Sat, we sat just outside the station waiting for a HST to depart so we could get on a platform, was the same with the Meridian behind.

 

[Kneedown]

The terms of the franchise are has to have a direct service to London. These were written in as early as 2002 when the original planning went in for Corby Station.

I beleive what EMT do in rush hour is only run the shuttle as it is impossible to get into St Pancras. When I went on Sat, we sat just outside the station waiting for a HST to depart so we could get on a platform, was the same with the Meridian behind.

If they can get away with running a shuttle during rush hour (when a direct service would be most useful!) then they could probably get away with running it through the day as long as one or two token directs were run. Capacity at St Panx shouldn't really be an issue as the Corby service attaches/detatches to a 4/5 car Meridian at Kettering doesn't it?

 

[robonuk]

No the Corby Service is a direct service to London. The 4 / 5 Car Meridian starts at Corby then runs through. Sometimes sits in Kettering for a life time. The capacity at London St Pancras is a problem due to EMT only having 4 platforms to depart from.

Might be slightly different on a weekday, haven't been down on weekday for long time. But when I got to London on Saturday there were already 4 trains on the platfroms, hence why we had to wait at the outer limits. Trains obviously depart at xx:55, xx:00, xx:25 & xx:30, where as most trains arrive into London St Pancras at very simular times.

 

[tbtc]

What are the dwell times like at St P? I'd have thought a half hour turnaround sounded possible, meaning potential for each platform to be used twice each hour (meaning potentially eight departures an hour, but more realistically six should be possible)?

 

[williamn]

Was it shortsighted to only have 4 platforms at StP for EMT?

 

[WillPS]

I remember when the Robin Hood Line was planned, it was touted as providing key links to London - although I'm not sure these were ever phrased as Direct. RR, Central and EMT got away with just showing an italic "London St. Pancras" arrival at the foot of the timetable to prove this link without ever providing it.

I'm surprised no Open Access Operator has tried a service direct to Mansfield.

 

[The Planner]

What are the dwell times like at St P? I'd have thought a half hour turnaround sounded possible, meaning potential for each platform to be used twice each hour (meaning potentially eight departures an hour, but more realistically six should be possible)?

20 mins turnround for a 222, 30 for a HST. The HST can drop to 20 as long as the diagram didnt have a 20 minute turnround previously or after the current 20 minute one if that makes sense !!

 

[Edvid]

Was it shortsighted to only have 4 platforms at StP for EMT?

The platform allocation was decided back in the early/mid 90s - the Intercity frequency to/from StP was only 2tph at the time IIRC.

 

[robonuk]

So why didn't they add more platforms when they rebuilt St Pancras? Surely the last plans weren't published when they knew that there was going to be more frequent service? Dft aint really got a clue about anything!

 

[Waddon]

So why didn't they add more platforms when they rebuilt St Pancras? Surely the last plans weren't published when they knew that there was going to be more frequent service? Dft aint really got a clue about anything!

Because the rebuild was primarily for the benefit of Eurostar, everything else was really secondary to that. The facilities for East Midlands trains are, in my opinion, surprisingly poor in comparison to the generally high standard of the station as a whole.

 

[tbtc]

...the lack of EMT platforms is good reason for letting Thameslink's 24tph take responsibility for stations south of Leicester...

 

[WillPS]

I agree, Thameslink should be responsible for the more "local" London links.

 

[Kneedown]

...the lack of EMT platforms is good reason for letting Thameslink's 24tph take responsibility for stations south of Leicester...

Slight problem there......? Lack of overhead wires north of Bedford??????

And besides, what difference would it make who runs the trains? If there is a shortage of platforms St Pancras then it really makes no difference what colour the trains are painted or who is running them does it?

 

[gordonthemoron]

And besides, what difference would it make who runs the trains? If there is a shortage of platforms St Pancras then it really makes no difference what colour the trains are painted or who is running them does it?

Thameslink trains don't use the terminating platforms at St.P so there would be less congestion

 

[tbtc]

Slight problem there......? Lack of overhead wires north of Bedford??????

The implication was that the line from Bedford to Corby/ Leicester would be wired

And besides, what difference would it make who runs the trains? If there is a shortage of platforms St Pancras then it really makes no difference what colour the trains are painted or who is running them does it?

As Gordon has explained, there's a limited capacity "overground" at St P, but capacity for twenty four Thameslink services an hour through central London (some of which may be to/from Cambridge/ Peterborough etc) means there's much more scope for them to provide places like Corby with a realistic frequency whilst freeing up the scarce "overground" St P platforms for long distance services (which could run non-stop south of Leicester, or maybe just Luton Airport)

 

[EM2]

So why didn't they add more platforms when they rebuilt St Pancras? Surely the last plans weren't published when they knew that there was going to be more frequent service? Dft aint really got a clue about anything!

Two things.

When the StP rebuild was being planned, passenger numbers were nowhere near as high as they are now. I think the DfT and the rail industry as a whole have been caught oput by how successful rail travel has become recently.

Secondly, where would you put extra platforms? The only option is over Midland Road on the West side, that means keeping Midland Road pretty much in tunnel from the junction of Goods Way to Brill Place, and blocking out light for the flats on the opposite side, who made more than enough fuss about the redevelopment as it is.
You have to remember that St Pancras is only stage one of a massive redevelopment of the whole area, see http://www.kingsx.co.uk/kx7.htm for an idea of what's going on.

 

[gordonthemoron]

what a dreadful website

 

[EM2]

what a dreadful website

To be fair, it's not the website of the developers, it's an amateur site run by members of the local community to keep people informed.

Try this one: http://www.argentkingscross.com/

 

[Waverley125]

personally think it'd be better to extend MML Thameslink services north to at least Kettering, if not Leicester. Then let EMT run all long distance services calling only at Bedford.

 

[EM2]

personally think it'd be better to extend MML Thameslink services north to at least Kettering, if not Leicester. Then let EMT run all long distance services calling only at Bedford.

But that's not going to happen unless wires go up north of Bedford, and who knows when that might be?

 

[paul1609]

I havent looked at the passenger figures recently but the Robin Hood Line was always quoted as the horribly underperforming reopening so I doubt anyone would want to run more trains.