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Cork - Dublin Loco-hauled query

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Foxhound

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Hi Chaps,

Visiting Cork in June and wondered if anyone had the diagrams for the GM-hauled services to Dublin? I've been told by other people that DMUs are starting to take over everywhere, so any gen would be appreciated. Also, any good photography locations between Cork & Limerick?

Cheers! ;)
 
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pemma

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Wikipedia claims Cork-Dublin is loco-hauled except for some off-peak diagrams where 22000's were introduced in 2009.

When I was there in June 2009 I only saw 22000's on Dublin and Killarney services. (Killarney getting a limited direct service from Cork at that time.)

If you're in Cork you should ride the Cork-Cobh line which is a scenic line along the harbour.
 

judethegreat

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Going by the reports of Irish markIIIs rotting away, I thought Ireland was all units now, except the Enterprise??
 

GM078

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Far from starting to take over, railcars have long since taken over the remaining routes!
The majority of the Dublin-Cork runs are loco operated but some of the diagrams can be worked by ICRs, for example, and I'm open to correction, I think the 9:00 Heuston-Cork and its return working is an ICR turn. However the early morning services out of Cork/evening Heuston-Cork services should be a safe enough bet for loco operated mkIVs unless something goes awry.

The Dublin-Belfast Enterprise is your only other option for a loco operated service train, might be a bit out of your way though. As with the Corks these are 201 operated push-pull sets (Die Dietrich carriages rather than the CAF mkIVs). The RPSI is the only Irish TOC with conventional (non-push-pull) loco hauled stock these days, unless NIR ever choose to resurrect the Gatwick mkIIf set.

A pretty boring fleet from an enthusiast's POV but it has to be said it's a far more efficient system than it was 10 years ago.

However, if you can make it up to somewhere between Kildare and Portarlington on a weekday you should get some opportunities to photograph freight workings, there are liner and timber workings between Waterford and Ballina, along with the Dublin-Ballina IWT liners.

Actually, it seems likely that the 2700 railcars will be mothballed so if they're still in service by the time of your visit it might be worth getting a few shots; at the moment the majority work in the Limerick area, not sure if they'll still be there then though.
 
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judethegreat

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Ah, right, didn't realise there were mkIVs.. Are they better, worse or equal to the mkIIIs?
 

89-763-733

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0800 and 0900 ex Heuston and 1130 and 1230 ex Cork are rostered for a 22000 railcar but the 0800/1130 has often been loco hauled Friday only. No guarantee though
 

GM078

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Ah, right, didn't realise there were mkIVs.. Are they better, worse or equal to the mkIIIs?

The mkIIIs have a better reputation in terms of ride quality at any rate. The IÉ mkIVs are unrelated to the BR ones by the way. They were built by CAF in Spain in 2005.
 

judethegreat

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The mkIIIs have a better reputation in terms of ride quality at any rate. The IÉ mkIVs are unrelated to the BR ones by the way. They were built by CAF in Spain in 2005.



So why did they replace them, were they actually knackered? (Sorry, I'm really out of touch...) Cheers :)
 

GM078

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So why did they replace them, were they actually knackered? (Sorry, I'm really out of touch...) Cheers :)

The mkIIIs? Not so much knackered, though the mkIIds (withdrawn 2008) certainly were. It's more down to IÉ's change in traction policty. Since the mid-2000s the company has been trying to get away from loco hauled operation towards railcars. It's controversial though, as many feel the mkIIIs had more life left in them. There's also the fact that the 1988/9 built mkIII push-pull fleet were also withdrawn, most of them cut up, and the ten of the 1994/5 built 201 class (the ten that can't work push-pull so no good for the Cork/Belfasts) are stored at Inchicore out of use (though a new freight flow could give them a reprieve).

There was a proposal to utilize some sets on the Dublin-Belfast route to give it an hourly service, but funding for their refurbishment was not forthcoming. However, some of the generator vans have been refurbished for use on the service, so that the 201s no longer need to supply Head End Power, which has affected the reliability of the service in the past. HEP is not designed for what is (by US standards) a relatively short distance stop and start service (an average of 30-40 mins between stops at most).

The last mkIII service train ran in Autumn 2009, with a one-off charity railtour using them in April 2010.
 

judethegreat

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The mkIIIs? Not so much knackered, though the mkIIds (withdrawn 2008) certainly were. It's more down to IÉ's change in traction policty. Since the mid-2000s the company has been trying to get away from loco hauled operation towards railcars. It's controversial though, as many feel the mkIIIs had more life left in them. There's also the fact that the 1988/9 built mkIII push-pull fleet were also withdrawn, most of them cut up, and the ten of the 1994/5 built 201 class (the ten that can't work push-pull so no good for the Cork/Belfasts) are stored at Inchicore out of use (though a new freight flow could give them a reprieve).

There was a proposal to utilize some sets on the Dublin-Belfast route to give it an hourly service, but funding for their refurbishment was not forthcoming. However, some of the generator vans have been refurbished for use on the service, so that the 201s no longer need to supply Head End Power, which has affected the reliability of the service in the past. HEP is not designed for what is (by US standards) a relatively short distance stop and start service (an average of 30-40 mins between stops at most).

The last mkIII service train ran in Autumn 2009, with a one-off charity railtour using them in April 2010.



Thanks a lot for all that :)
So were the mkIIIs transfered to other routes when the mkIVs came along, to then almost immediately be replaced by units? Seems a bit of a waste to have built the mkIVs when they must have known what they were going to do..
 

Drimnagh Road

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Trickie Dickie came on-board when times were good and was handed unlimited amounts of cash to buy unlimited amounts of 22000s. I think if he had the opportunity, he would have cancelled the order for the mk4s, but were in an advanced stage of construction.

The Cravens and mk2s needed to go, but the mk3s were only 20 years old.

The 09:00 & 10:00 Dublin-Cork, and 12:30 & 13:30 return are booked for 22000s during the week.
 

Foxhound

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The 09:00 & 10:00 Dublin-Cork, and 12:30 & 13:30 return are booked for 22000s during the week.

Thanks for that, I really appreciate it. I've had a look at the IRN forum, (still waiting for membership to be approved), and cobbled together a piecemeal running order from that based on October & November observations, so this gen is very useful. I've trawled everywhere looking for diagrams but they appear to be a closely guarded thing.

Pointers for freight much appreciated, just need to check out where sheds and yards are and what the mileage is on the route now.

Thanks again for the info.

As for Portillo, not enough focus on the trains this week, to my disappointment.
 

PFX

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still waiting for membership to be approved

Don't hold your breath on that count. I waited for about 7 months and received no approval despite sending numeruos e-mails to the mods.
 

judethegreat

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Trickie Dickie came on-board when times were good and was handed unlimited amounts of cash to buy unlimited amounts of 22000s. I think if he had the opportunity, he would have cancelled the order for the mk4s, but were in an advanced stage of construction.

The Cravens and mk2s needed to go, but the mk3s were only 20 years old.

Cheers :)
 

Chester025

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Thanks for that, I really appreciate it. I've had a look at the IRN forum, (still waiting for membership to be approved), and cobbled together a piecemeal running order from that based on October & November observations, so this gen is very useful. I've trawled everywhere looking for diagrams but they appear to be a closely guarded thing.

Their are diagrams from November on the Irish Rail Yahoo group.
 

Drimnagh Road

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The 09:00 & 10:00 Dublin-Cork, and 12:30 & 13:30 return are booked for 22000s during the week.

correction;

It is the;

08:00 Dublin-Cork / 11:30 Cork-Dublin (Mon-Fri)
09:00 Dublin-Cork / 12:30 Cork-Dublin (Mon-Fri)

By looking at the timetable, http://www.irishrail.ie/media/11_DublinCork1.pdf, we can see that these services have no 1st class so that's a guarantee of units. Again, at weekends, you are safe.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re IRN,

you don't need to be a member to view the forums, but do to post.

The 201 forum is a good way to keep up on what's working the Cork line (and the Belfast and Freight)
http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/484/201-Watch?page=326

Some good updates to members photo sites too that will keep you up to date with the current scene...
http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/688/Re-Photographic-Websites-Update-Thread?page=-1
 
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Chester025

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Diagram Train ID Days Dep From To Arr Notes


Class 201 Loco & Mk.IV Coaches

201.01 Off 201.05
201.01 EWD ecs Cork Mallow
201.01 D245 EWD 08:00 Mallow Cork 08:25
201.01 A209 EWD 09:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 12:20
201.01 A214 EWD 13:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 15:55
201.01 A223 EWD 16:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 19:30
201.01 A230 EWD 21:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 23:55
201.01 Works 201.03

201.02 Off 201.03
201.02 A202 EWD 07:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 09:50
201.02 A211 EWD 10:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 13:20
201.02 A216 EWD 14:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 16:50
201.02 A225 EWD 17:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 20:28
201.02 Works 201.07

201.03 Off 201.01
201.03 A203 EWD 06:15 Cork Dublin Heuston 08:45
201.03 A208 EWD 10:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 12:50
201.03 A217 EWD 13:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 16:25
201.03 A222 EWD 17:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 19:30
201.03 A231 EWD 20:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 23:20
201.03 Works 201.02

201.04 Off 201.07
201.04 A205 EWD 07:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 10:05
201.04 A210 EWD 11:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 13:55
201.04 A219 EWD 14:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 17:20
201.04 A224 EWD 18:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 20:50
201.04 Works 201.06

201.05 Off 201.06
201.05 A212 EWD 12:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 14:45
201.05 A221 EWD 15:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 18:20
201.05 A226 EWD 19:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 21:58
201.05 Works 201.01

201.06 Off 201.04
201.06 A201 EWD 05:05 Cork Dublin Heuston 08:10
201.06 A218 EWD 15:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 17:45
201.06 A227 EWD 18:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 21:25
201.06 Works 201.05

201.07 Off 201.02
201.07 A220 EWD 16:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 18:45
201.07 Works 201.04


201.51 A215 SUN 12:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 15:15
201.51 A220 SUN 16:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 18:50
201.51 A229 SUN 19:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 22:15
201.51 Works 201.05 MO

201.52 A208 SUN 10:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 12:50
201.52 A217 SUN 13:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 16:15
201.52 A222 SUN 17:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 19:45
201.52 Works 201.04 MO

201.53 A211 SUN 10:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 13:20
201.53 A216 SUN 14:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 16:45
201.53 A225 SUN 17:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 20:15
201.53 Works 201.02 MO

201.54 A219 SUN 14:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 17:15
201.54 A224 SUN 18:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 20:45
201.54 Works 201.03 MO

201.55 A214 SUN 13:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 15:45
201.55 A223 SUN 16:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 19:15
201.55 A230 SUN 21:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 23:50
201.55 Works 201.01 MO

201.56 A207 SUN 08:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 11:15
201.56 A212 SUN 12:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 14:45
201.56 A221 SUN 15:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 18:15
201.56 A226 SUN 19:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 21:45
201.56 Works 201.06 MO

201.57 A218 SUN 15:00 Dublin Heuston Cork 17:45
201.57 A227 SUN 18:30 Cork Dublin Heuston 21:20
201.57 Works 201.07 MO
 

43167

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Very useful thread this. Im in Ireland in a couple of weeks and plan a spin in the south one day.

Thanks everyone.
 

GM078

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Thanks a lot for all that :)
So were the mkIIIs transfered to other routes when the mkIVs came along, to then almost immediately be replaced by units? Seems a bit of a waste to have built the mkIVs when they must have known what they were going to do..

When the mkIVs came in some mkIIIs would have been cascaded onto some of the Heuston mkIId links, with the mkIIds displacing Cravens (which gradually allowed the Cravens to be withdrawn over the course of 2006). Then as more ICRs arrived the mkIIIs were bumped down to some of the mkIId links (thus allowing the mkIIds to be withdrawn in early 2008), until there was enough ICRs to displace the mkIIIs themselves.
 

judethegreat

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When the mkIVs came in some mkIIIs would have been cascaded onto some of the Heuston mkIId links, with the mkIIds displacing Cravens (which gradually allowed the Cravens to be withdrawn over the course of 2006). Then as more ICRs arrived the mkIIIs were bumped down to some of the mkIId links (thus allowing the mkIIds to be withdrawn in early 2008), until there was enough ICRs to displace the mkIIIs themselves.


Cheers :)
 

IR-Mark4/ICR

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The 22000 can pop up on the Cork line anytime.

08.00 and 09.00 Mon-Thur - scheduled to be 22000 but can be Mark 4.
11.30 and 12.30 Mon-Thur - scheduled to be 22000 but can be Mark 4.
15.00 - scheduled to be a Mark 4 but 22000 operate it a lot recently.
Some of the 22000 operated services have first class but its noting different to standred class on the 22000.
18.30 - scheduled to be a Mark 4 but 22000 operate it a lot recently.

There is a high chance that if its a Mark 4 set that it will be operated by an Entreprise loco and not the Intercity loco. Not that it makes a difference.
 
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