Could 185s transfer to EMR?

[OTRail]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/emr-class-170-updates.202522/

The Liverpool - Norwich service will be no more with it going to Liverpool - Nottingham and a separate service for Norwich going through to Derby. I assume its the Norwich leg the will be the final route to be added to the 170 routes, as the speculation around the Liverpools was for class 185 or even class 175 being planned.

I can most likely seeing it being 185 operated - 15 are being released by TPE, which is the perfect amount to operate the route. Not to mention they already operate the hope valley route and are maintained near Piccadilly (Ardwick). EMR’s 3 fleet strategy made sense until the Liverpool - Nottingham section was announced as staying with them, as there aren’t sufficient 170s to operate it.

 

[SteveyBee131]

Ah yes, the class 185 can of worms and speculation is opened, again!

 

[Chiltern006]

they are confirmed to have a new home, so who that is is a completely different question. there are strong rumours that its emr though

 

[WesternLancer]

they are confirmed to have a new home, so who that is is a completely different question. there are strong rumours that its emr though

surely the 185s should go to Southern to allow their Turbostars come to to EMR.....arghhhhhh

 

[RHolmes]

they are confirmed to have a new home, so who that is is a completely different question. there are strong rumours that its emr though

Confirmed where?

 

[Chiltern006]

a guard i know told me about it, its not Southern as they can't fit the Oxted tunnel. there's a 90% chance it will be emr, and 10% something else, its the railway so who knows what will change and eventually happen

 

[43096]

a guard i know told me about it, its not Southern as they can't fit the Oxted tunnel. there's a 90% chance it will be emr, and 10% something else, its the railway so who knows what will change and eventually happen

The old a driver/guard/platform dispatcher told me so it must be true. Funnily enough, they’re not the ones directly involved with making fleet decisions.

 

[Energy]

The old a driver/guard/platform dispatcher told me so it must be true. Funnily enough, they’re not the ones directly involved with making fleet decisions.

I guard can tell me a Eurostar E320 set will operate on the Stourbridge Shuttle, doesn't mean it will!

 

[Metal_gee_man]

I guard can tell me a Eurostar E320 set will operate on the Stourbridge Shuttle, doesn't mean it will!

A E320 would park at Stourbridge Junction and stretch all the way to town so it becomes a walking route win win

 

[RHolmes]

a guard i know told me about it, its not Southern as they can't fit the Oxted tunnel. there's a 90% chance it will be emr, and 10% something else, its the railway so who knows what will change and eventually happen

Well we know they’re staying with TPE until atleast December 2021 at the request of TfN

Depending on the effects and handling of the pandemic, there may be a further extension to this to allow for full 6 car working (atleast In the peaks) whilst assessments on the Redcar route and Mk5a set training resumes (of which there is still two that haven’t been accepted two and a half years later than their expected arrival date).

 

[bunnahabhain]

If the Cleethorpes service does run through to Liverpool Lime Street via Warrington, are there enough 185s to cover that in place of Manchester Airport?

 

[OTRail]

If the Cleethorpes service does run through to Liverpool Lime Street via Warrington, are there enough 185s to cover that in place of Manchester Airport?

They aren’t running from Cleethorpes - if they do run the route it’ll be from Nottingham. But again dependent on a sufficient amount of 170s entering service

 

[RHolmes]

They aren’t running from Cleethorpes - if they do run the route it’ll be from Nottingham. But again dependent on a sufficient amount of 170s entering service

I believe the OP may be referring to the Manchester rail consultation which proposes the Liverpool to Nottingham and Liverpool to Cleethorpes service to be TPE operated from 2023

 

[Geeves]

I am sure I didn't imagine it but on the job description for EMR at Lime Street the traction was 170s and 185s. 170s for the Crewe jobs.

 

[raetiamann]

That makes sense as the rumours have been quite strong for the 185s to transfer for the Nottm Liverpool service, once released by TPE.

 

[43096]

I am sure I didn't imagine it but on the job description for EMR at Lime Street the traction was 170s and 185s. 170s for the Crewe jobs.

Could be a typo, though?

 

[OTRail]

Could be a typo, though?

Could be, but remember that EMR has commissioned a full fleet replacement, including for the 158s. Seeing as the route is being split, there are a lack of available 170s and the DfT has provided EMR the option to lease them, the transfer could well be happening.

 

[43096]

Could be, but remember that EMR has commissioned a full fleet replacement, including for the 158s. Seeing as the route is being split, there are a lack of available 170s and the DfT has provided EMR the option to lease them, the transfer could well be happening.

There are effectively two shortfalls now, though. One the number of 170s against the original franchise bid (ie excluding Nottingham-Liverpool) as GTR aren’t going to release the 171s in time.

Second is the need to now resource Nottingham-Liverpool in the EMR operation. I agree that 185s make sense as a) the number TPE send back matches the requirement and b) 1/3 2/3 door stock is better through Manchester for dwell times.

158s could cover either or both needs, though!

 

[fgwrich]

There are effectively two shortfalls now, though. One the number of 170s against the original franchise bid (ie excluding Nottingham-Liverpool) as GTR aren’t going to release the 171s in time.

Second is the need to now resource Nottingham-Liverpool in the EMR operation. I agree that 185s make sense as a) the number TPE send back matches the requirement and b) 1/3 2/3 door stock is better through Manchester for dwell times.

158s could cover either or both needs, though!


Current EMR 170s: 416-420/530/531

To come from West Mids: 501-517/532-535.

Beyond that, Should be a large chunk of the GTR 171s, but only if/when they can get replacements.

Slightly diverging the topic for a moment, but From a maintenance point of view, the EMR 185s could also stay at Ardwick too - which keeps them reliable, and means that Derby wouldn't have the hassle of having to maintain another unit or find space for them.