Could CrossCountry run on the East West Rail (EWR) route?

[vuzzeho]

Moderator note: Split from

East-West Rail (EWR): Oxford-Bletchley construction progress

This thread is specifically for construction progress (not speculation and not discussion regarding the consultation) of the Oxford to Bletchley section of East West Rail (EWR). For consultation discussion please use...

www.railforums.co.uk

I read somewhere (a while ago, admittedly) that CrossCountry would run on EWR. Is there any truth to that?

 

[12LDA28C]

I read somewhere (a while ago, admittedly) that CrossCountry would run on EWR. Is there any truth to that?

Not heard anything about CrossCountry running trains on it, unless they train a few staff up for diversionary purposes. It'll be EWR trains booked to use it, with some freight no doubt.

 

[swt_passenger]

… I read somewhere (a while ago, admittedly) that CrossCountry would run on EWR. Is there any truth to that?

Some years ago there was a proposal that the line would allow for an hourly “cross country style path”, and an older route strategy got as far as suggesting a Manchester - Reading service running via the Trent Valley, Bletchley and Oxford. That didn’t automatically mean it would have been the XC franchisee.

This proposed service was formally removed from the EWR specification by DfT by the time the TWA Order was applied for.

 

[dk1]

The Cross Country franchise was based on services operating via Birmingham New Street. I see no reason why they would use EWR.

 

[zwk500]

I read somewhere (a while ago, admittedly) that CrossCountry would run on EWR. Is there any truth to that?

This is extremely unlikely, unless there are engineering works or a serious incident that requires diversion. AFAIK XC won't be running regular timetabled services over the line.

 

[The Planner]

They won't divert over it either. They struggle to cover their existing diversions as it stands.

 

[al green]

There was proposal to run the XC S'ton-Manc service via EWR and WCML to avoid delays in Birmingham area. However this was scuppered by the 3 track section of WCML north of Rugby. There was an hourly path for a southbound XC but no path for northbound.

 

[William3000]

The Cross Country franchise was based on services operating via Birmingham New Street. I see no reason why they would use EWR.

Birmingham New St to Cambridge could be a possibility if they ever put in a north-east facing curve at Bletchley, and potentially almost an hour faster than the existing route, albeit the existing route is vital for interchange at Peterborough and links from Midlands to Stansted Airport.

I think a Birmingham New St, Birmingham International, Coventry, Northampton, Milton Keynes Central, Bedford, St Neots South, Cambourne, Cambridge South, Cambridge could work.

 

[Topological]

Given Thameslink uses the fasts on the MML south of Bedford, presumably, paths exist north of Bedford.

Therefore is there any value in a (From somewhere in the South) Oxford - Bletchley - Bedford - Leicester - Sheffield (Onwards to the North) route?

I put this via the Erewash, presuming a train would still run in the current Reading to Newcastle path between Birmingham New Street and Sheffield via Derby. An alternative may be to send the train through Nottingham and onwards to the ECML.

More stops can be added, I am just indicating the potential for a train which provides better connectivity between North East and the South.

 

[dk1]

Birmingham New St to Cambridge could be a possibility if they ever put in a north-east facing curve at Bletchley, and potentially almost an hour faster than the existing route, albeit the existing route is vital for interchange at Peterborough and links from Midlands to Stansted Airport.

I think a Birmingham New St, Birmingham International, Coventry, Northampton, Milton Keynes Central, Bedford, St Neots South, Cambourne, Cambridge South, Cambridge could work.

Sounds a good idea but suppose it will all come down to available paths on the WCML and who gets the revenue slice allocation for stations on EWR.

 

[al green]

Birmingham New St to Cambridge could be a possibility if they ever put in a north-east facing curve at Bletchley, and potentially almost an hour faster than the existing route, albeit the existing route is vital for interchange at Peterborough and links from Midlands to Stansted Airport.

I think a Birmingham New St, Birmingham International, Coventry, Northampton, Milton Keynes Central, Bedford, St Neots South, Cambourne, Cambridge South, Cambridge could work.

It doesn't need to wait for a N-E chord at Bletchley. Trains can reverse in P5 at Bletchley and go from Marston vale to WCML and vv. This would add about 5 mins to journey time, compared to a chord, but improve connectivity. This facility was built some years ago for MV stoppers to be extended to MKC. That was in the LM franchise agreement. However when the infra was completed LM said it was too near the end of their franchise for them to be introducing new service and just ignored the commitment and it doesn't appear to be in the LNR contracts. Reversal in P6 could be enabled by re-instating the trailing crossover at the north end of P5 and 6. Reversal in the new P7 and 8 could be enabled by minor changes to signalling (trains can reverse from the Oxford direction but not from the Bedford/MKC direction). So reversal at Bletchley is a much simpler, cheaper and quicker to construct solution than a chord. The chord only becomes necessary if freight trains need to go from EWR to head north on wCML or vv.

 

[zwk500]

Therefore is there any value in a (From somewhere in the South) Oxford - Bletchley - Bedford - Leicester - Sheffield (Onwards to the North) route?

Some value but not enough to justify a train service.
Travel on this corridor is largely limited to short distance commuting, and so running too far beyond Bedford or Oxford ends up quickly on the diminishing returns curve. Didcot to Kettering is probably the feasible limit, and that will have its own set of problems.

It doesn't need to wait for a N-E chord at Bletchley. Trains can reverse in P5 at Bletchley and go from Marston vale to WCML and vv. This would add about 5 mins to journey time, compared to a chord, but improve connectivity.

All correct although at the cost of capacity. Also, the trailing crossover between 5 and 6 would presumably prevent 12 car length of 5, a feature that is used very often by LNR.

 

[al green]

All correct although at the cost of capacity. Also, the trailing crossover between 5 and 6 would presumably prevent 12 car length of 5, a feature that is used very often by LNR.

No Longer true. Almost all LNR now run as 8 car - see latest TT which has no of cars for each train. Of the few that are 12 car none of them start or terminate at Bletchley, which was when they used to use P5. Even if a 12 car did use P5 it would only block the crossover for a few minutes

 

[Guano]

Network Rail's "West Midlands & Chilterns Route Study" (August 2017) developed an Indicative Train Service Specification for 2043, and this included two long-distance services per hour running via East West Rail: Bristol to Leeds and South-west to Nottingham (page 48).

Network Rail's "East West Main Line Strategic Statement" (March 2022) presents a vision of East West Rail as an integrated part of the national rail network with a potential for longer distance passenger and freight services.

This suggests that Network Rail sees a long-term potential for East West Rail to carry longer distance services from south and west of Didcot to the East Midlands and further north, bypassing Birmingham and is trying to ensure that this potential isn't missed through short-term decisions.

 

[The Planner]

Network Rail's "West Midlands & Chilterns Route Study" (August 2017) developed an Indicative Train Service Specification for 2043, and this included two long-distance services per hour running via East West Rail: Bristol to Leeds and South-west to Nottingham (page 48).

Network Rail's "East West Main Line Strategic Statement" (March 2022) presents a vision of East West Rail as an integrated part of the national rail network with a potential for longer distance passenger and freight services.

This suggests that Network Rail sees a long-term potential for East West Rail to carry longer distance services from south and west of Didcot to the East Midlands and further north, bypassing Birmingham and is trying to ensure that this potential isn't missed through short-term decisions.

The fact that those identified services have disappeared in the five years between the two documents speaks volumes. An ITSS is not a timetable, you and I can produce an ITSS if we wanted. Both those documents are shopping lists for funders, not guarantees in the slightest.

 

[Guano]

Indeed, those planning documents are certainly not guarantees. They may, however, be where the original poster got the idea that Cross Country might run on East West Rail.