Could Lumo take the spare 221's instead of 222's?

[PG]

Moderator note: split from

First Rail Stirling (Lumo) Rolling Stock

I hadn’t spotted that and wondered if the three spare coaches could be inserted into 4-coach sets to bring them up to five coaches until I read #180.

www.railforums.co.uk

Forgive my naivety

What reason (I assume there is a good one) prevents Lumo taking the spare 221's instead of some 222's?

 

[Nym]

Forgive my naivety

What reason (I assume there is a good one) prevents Lumo taking the spare 221's instead of some 222's?

The deal was done with Eversholt…

 

[Trainbike46]

Forgive my naivety

What reason (I assume there is a good one) prevents Lumo taking the spare 221's instead of some 222's?

The deal was done with Eversholt…

On top of that, Lumo is getting 6-car trains, which is much easier to achieve with 222s than with 221s.

The 222s are alsojust better trains than the 221s, so I can see why Lumo went with the 222s as they effectively had the choice!

 

[D365]

Forgive my naivety

What reason (I assume there is a good one) prevents Lumo taking the spare 221's instead of some 222's?

The deal was done with Eversholt…

And it might be the case that Beacon Rail and/or Alstom has agreed a deal for the six off-lease 221s.

 

[Wyrleybart]

And it might be the case that Beacon Rail and/or Alstom has agreed a deal for the six off-lease 221s.

Also that Lumo want six car trains which Eversholt can provide from their
"out of contract" 222s, whereas the 221s are five car units, so you would need to disband two 221s to provide 5 extra middle cars to lengthen five others.

 

[DaveyJones]

Also that Lumo want six car trains which Eversholt can provide from their
"out of contract" 222s, whereas the 221s are five car units, so you would need to disband two 221s to provide 5 extra middle cars to lengthen five others.

Assuming the 221 can actually form 6 car trains

 

[dk1]

Assuming the 221 can actually form 6 car trains

Wasn’t that what they were going to be anyway and why they just missed out coach E?

 

[duffield]

Do we know for certain that 222s can form six car trains? Might seem a silly question since they've run or are running as 4,5 and 7 cars but some other classes seem to have very specific length requirements e.g. due to where the engines are placed and how many engines are required for a certain performance level with a given number of coaches.

 

[dk1]

Do we know for certain that 222s can form six car trains? Might seem a silly question since they've run or are running as 4,5 and 7 cars but some other classes seem to have very specific length requirements e.g. due to where the engines are placed.

Shouldn’t be an issue. Biggest problem is fuelling them at certain locations due to length and location of pumps.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Wasn’t that what they were going to be anyway and why they just missed out coach E?

You would assume so, and pretty sure that was what VRG planned 25 years ago. The only restriction would possibly be the TMS system, but provided it "sees" every car in the formation and the units are fully set up in the software it should work. The driving cars don't have compressors, but an extra centre car would theoretically produce adequate air for the unit.

 

[dk1]

You would assume so, and pretty sure that was what VRG planned 25 years ago. The only restriction would possibly be the TMS system, but provided it "sees" every car in the formation and the units are fully set up in the software it should work. The driving cars don't have compressors, but an extra centre car would theoretically produce adequate air for the unit.

Virgin would have liked all Voyagers to be six cars from what I recall but the then SRA wasn’t interested.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Virgin would have liked all Voyagers to be six cars from what I recall but the then SRA wasn’t interested.

Good. Even fives are better than sixes as you can’t run two six 23m carriage units.

 

[LowLevel]

Do we know for certain that 222s can form six car trains? Might seem a silly question since they've run or are running as 4,5 and 7 cars but some other classes seem to have very specific length requirements e.g. due to where the engines are placed and how many engines are required for a certain performance level with a given number of coaches.

They've run as 4, 5, 7, 8 and 9 cars over the years. I think they're flexible provided you use the right vehicles.

 

[stadler]

Cross Country desperately needs the entire fleet of 44x 221s. They have major capacity issues. They have a real need for them unlike Lumo who have not even started the new services yet. I think the priority should be sending all 221s (including the GC ones) to Cross Country so that they have the entire fleet of 44x 221s.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Lumo didn’t want the 221 units. The 222 sets are a much better train. The Lumo deal has been done and whoever gets the 221 sets is welcome to them.

 

[harz99]

Lumo didn’t want the 221 units. The 222 sets are a much better train. The Lumo deal has been done and whoever gets the 221 sets is welcome to them.

Much as I detest the passenger experience on 221s, given the current reliability issues with the 180 fleet, which are resulting in part and full service cancellations on an almost daily basis, I'd say that GC urgently needs the available 221s!

 

[43066]

They've run as 4, 5, 7, 8 and 9 cars over the years. I think they're flexible provided you use the right vehicles.

Indeed - and the software, SDO equipment etc. could support them running in up to 13 car formation should it ever be required.