Could Meldon Quarry stone trains start again?

[Brush 4]

Freight from Meldon Quarry to resume. This local Okehampton Information Hub seem to know a lot. Hard to know whether this goes under Speculation or not. They don't seem like they are speculating.

Obviously we prefer there to be a proper article with a quote but it doesn’t seem to be available. If anyone has anything could you please let us know.

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[Sun Chariot]

Freight from Meldon Quarry to resume. This local Okehampton Information Hub seem to know a lot. Hard to know whether this goes under Speculation or not. They don't seem like they are speculating.

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I'm not familiar with the topic. It's been 15 years since I took a Sprinter from Exeter to Okehampton and back.

Has Meldon Viaduct been repaired? I think the deterioration was a contributing factor into why BR's quarry traffic ceased.

 

[simonw]

I'm not familiar with the topic. It's been 15 years since I took a Sprinter from Exeter to Okehampton and back.

Has Meldon Viaduct been repaired? I think the deterioration was a contributing factor into why BR's quarry traffic ceased.

The quarry didn't use the viaduct for its rail traffic in the period before it closed. It did in earlier times, but not prior to closure.

 

[Snow1964]

Has Meldon Viaduct been repaired? I think the deterioration was a contributing factor into why BR's quarry traffic ceased.

A cycle path has been opened on one of the trackbeds (it is actually two viaducts side by side as it opened as single track).

Sometimes in the past deteriorating structure was used as an excuse, rather than significant money needs spending. I understand it had lot of strengthening added in 1944 (for heavy wartime traffic), and more around 1960. Possibly could be reopened with a light route availability (think DMU, rather than massive locomotive)

 

[brad465]

How will freight be pathed on that line if it resumed? The long single section between Okehampton and Crediton is almost always occupied, as units pass at the latter. The line would either need a new passing loop somewhere along it, and/or the parallel lines through Yeoford becoming a double track line. Failing this, the passenger service would have to be suspended for an hour to allow a freight service to run (similar to when Holybourne Oil terminal was served, an Alton train would turn round at Farnham).

 

[zwk500]

How will freight be pathed on that line if it resumed? The long single section between Okehampton and Crediton is almost always occupied, as units pass at the latter. The line would either need a new passing loop somewhere along it, and/or the parallel lines through Yeoford becoming a double track line. Failing this, the passenger service would have to be suspended for an hour to allow a freight service to run (similar to when Holybourne Oil terminal was served, an Alton train would turn round at Farnham).

or the freight is restricted to running between the last and first passenger trains overnight.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The quarry didn't use the viaduct for its rail traffic in the period before it closed. It did in earlier times, but not prior to closure.

Ah that makes sense. I didn’t get to see the quarry trains, nor explore the Okehampton and Meldon area, when I'd ventured Devon-side during the 1980s.

 

[grahamshevlin]

From what I have read, the viaduct was strengthened/repaired at the start of the 1960s, but in 1966 the up line was taken out of service, and trains used the down line in both directions, with a token being used between Meldon Junction and Meldon signal boxes over the viaduct. When I went to Meldon in 1978 on one of the ACE railtours, the up line was still in place on the viaduct as a headshunt (although the rust on the rails showed no recent use), the down side being the metalled road installed at the end of 1969.
Given that Meldon viaduct is an engineering kludge (two single viaducts with a dogs dinner of a merged deck for the double track) it would not surprise me if the deck structure is no longer fit for purpose for anything but foot traffic.
As for stone trains running again from Meldon quarry...the new track laid for the passenger service ends just West of the station, and the old track up to the quarry isn't exactly in great condition.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Thanks @grahamshevlin that's an insightful and interesting post; much appreciated.

Hello @Brush 4 Does that Facebook group specify what rail traffic will move from Meldon Quarry and to whom & where?
Is the quarry still owned by Imerys? Do they currently use it?

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Meldon Viaduct isn't relevant for restarting stone trains - it is west of the quarry and trackless. The issue is finding a path to run them - the section from Crediton is fully occupied when the passenger service is operating, so they will have to run overnight. The quarry is owned by Aggregate Industries but they appear to have granted a 5 year lease to a local company. All the machinery for crushing and grading stone was removed by AI. I am a bit sceptical to be honest - it is more likely to be small consignments taken out by road for local use in Devon and Cornwall.

 

[michael74]

I was told that there are still stone paths in the system, NR won't give them up, hence why there isn't a later last train to Okehampton on a Friday (like there is to Barnstaple) and the service starts later in the mornings.

 

[grahamshevlin]

Meldon Viaduct isn't relevant for restarting stone trains - it is west of the quarry and trackless. The issue is finding a path to run them - the section from Crediton is fully occupied when the passenger service is operating, so they will have to run overnight. The quarry is owned by Aggregate Industries but they appear to have granted a 5 year lease to a local company. All the machinery for crushing and grading stone was removed by AI. I am a bit sceptical to be honest - it is more likely to be small consignments taken out by road for local use in Devon and Cornwall.

I am also skeptical, for similar reasons. Reinstating volume production would require the re-installation of similar equipment to that already removed from the site, overhaul of the rail infrastructure on the site (not used for stone trains for a long time), procurement of one or more shunters for stone car marshalling, and a modified arrangement of the single physical token system to allow locos to run up to Meldon to assemble stone trains. All of this costs money.

I am also skeptical, for similar reasons. Reinstating volume production would require the re-installation of similar equipment to that already removed from the site, overhaul of the rail infrastructure on the site (not used for stone trains for a long time), procurement of one or more shunters for stone car marshalling, and a modified arrangement of the single physical token system to allow locos to run up to Meldon to assemble stone trains. All of this costs money.

With only a 5 year lease, I have trouble determining how any extraction operation requiring full re-activation of the quarry and the reinstatement of stone trains could recover its cost, much less make any profit, unless the price of ballast stone has sky-rocketed.

 

[JKP]

There is some preliminary work being carried out at the quarry. I understand that there is a nationwide shortage of ballast. Given the condition of the track though not sure what the plan is to remove it off site. As has been said any trains would have to run at night.

 

[paul1609]

A cycle path has been opened on one of the trackbeds (it is actually two viaducts side by side as it opened as single track).

Sometimes in the past deteriorating structure was used as an excuse, rather than significant money needs spending. I understand it had lot of strengthening added in 1944 (for heavy wartime traffic), and more around 1960. Possibly could be reopened with a light route availability (think DMU, rather than massive locomotive)

I believe that the situation with Meldon Viaduct was not that the structure was deteriorating but that utilising modern engineering calculations it had not been of a sufficient construction in the first place, it was to do with side forces placed by the wind when a train was passing over during a storm. I think this was a known issue with the Southern Railway dating back to the 1930s. The structure was strengthened during WW2 to allow an alternative route for ammunition trains to run to Plymouth Dockyard but that this was always known to be "at risk" and that the viaduct was always severely speed restricted. I believe that any engineering solution would have required that the ground level foundations were replaced and as such it would have been cheaper to build a new viaduct alongside and to demolish the 2 existing viaducts. I think the structural deterioration has only occured in the time that the viaduct was used as a headshunt probably as a lack of maintenance. I dont think theres anychance of finding an engineer who would be willing to sign off the existing structures for reuse on a new railway line.

 

[billio]

Looking at an OS map and aerial photography, is there any alternative to rail for moving significant amounts of stone from the quarry ?

 

[Snow1964]

Looking at an OS map and aerial photography, is there any alternative to rail for moving significant amounts of stone from the quarry ?

The A30 dual carriageway is very close.

I believe that any engineering solution would have required that the ground level foundations were replaced and as such it would have been cheaper to build a new viaduct alongside and to demolish the 2 existing viaducts. I think the structural deterioration has only occured in the time that the viaduct was used as a headshunt probably as a lack of maintenance. I dont think theres anychance of finding an engineer who would be willing to sign off the existing structures for reuse on a new railway line.

The viaduct was built in a curve, which was part of the reason for weighting the bottom of the outer side of the columns with concrete, to avoid any chance of it pulling inwards.

Since the viaduct was built in 1874 (and doubled 5 years later) the quarry area has been dug over decades, and it might now be easier to build a new modern straight viaduct alongside, with a deviation through some of the (now flattish) quarry area to just before the tunnel (covered way ?) under the A30, rather than try to restore the old curved mainline alignment and reopen the existing viaduct.

 

[Class15]

or the freight is restricted to running between the last and first passenger trains overnight.

Wouldn’t that make use of rail from the quarry less attractive if 75% of the day is banned?

I’m also interested to see what they do with Meldon Viaduct. Suspect either a permanent fix or something temporary just for 5 years…

Ignore second paragraph, just seen above posts

 

[michael74]

Wouldn’t that make use of rail from the quarry less attractive if 75% of the day is banned?

If the paths are still in, why would running the trains at night be less attractive?

 

[Class15]

If the paths are still in, why would running the trains at night be less attractive?

As Tim Shoveller (Freightliner) has often said, freight trains need to fit the customer, not the railway, in order to be successful. If the night is not the best time from the quarry the freight can simply use road during the day instead.

 

[The exile]

As Tim Shoveller (Freightliner) has often said, freight trains need to fit the customer, not the railway, in order to be successful. If the night is not the best time from the quarry the freight can simply use road during the day instead.

If the quarry is supplying ballast, then the operator and the customer will soon be one and the same!

 

[trainmania100]

Forgive my assumptions but I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere (no source sorry) that at least 95% of the material produced, was to go via rail due to protected nature of the roads and woodland leading to the quarry

Quote taken from another forum freghtmaster Interactive;

Information suggests that since January the Meldon Quarry is in the process of being cleared of undergrowth with a completion date expected around June this year.

This follows news that stone/aggregate production will begin again under a new 5yr lease taken out with owners Aggregate Industries. It is not known who by or where production will go, but planning consent requires that around 90% should go out via rail. The access road to the A30 goes via protected woodland and is unsuitable for a constant procession of lorries, hence the caveat that rail is used.

Clearly some effort is required to bring back rail access, let alone fitting any workings into the timetable. I presume at this stage if anything does run it will operate at night.

There is photographic evidence of the clearance work taking place on an Okehampton area Facebook Group, where a call for machinery drivers has also gone out.

This is still very much a developing story and customer details and future plans are not known, but it does hold out for some interesting prospects should this come to pass.

 

[JKP]

Forgive my assumptions but I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere (no source sorry) that at least 95% of the material produced, was to go via rail due to protected nature of the roads and woodland leading to the quarry

Quote taken from another forum freghtmaster Interactive;

It is also my understanding that it is a condition of the planning permission that materials are removed by rail. I too do not have the source for this unfortunately.

 

[paul1609]

It is also my understanding that it is a condition of the planning permission that materials are removed by rail. I too do not have the source for this unfortunately.

I walked alongside the track from Okehampton to Meldon last year. Both the track and the rail are absolutely shot and would need completely relaying £25 million at NR prices?

 

[Bald Rick]

I walked alongside the track from Okehampton to Meldon last year. Both the track and the rail are absolutely shot and would need completely relaying £25 million at NR prices?

low tonnage, low speed; single line, use recovered materials, limited reballasting, weekday working, no passenger disruption, no possession costs, two miles - couple of million perhaps.

 

[paul1609]

low tonnage, low speed; single line, use recovered materials, limited reballasting, weekday working, no passenger disruption, no possession costs, two miles - couple of million perhaps.

Looks to me as though the A30 underpass is almost certainly a home for rare bats. At what stage does a derelict railway require an environmental survey before the 6 inch girth trees are felled on the track?

 

[Bald Rick]

Looks to me as though the A30 underpass is almost certainly a home for rare bats. At what stage does a derelict railway require an environmental survey before the 6 inch girth trees are felled on the track?

don’t know, but wouldn’t that be covered in the planning consent?

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Looks to me as though the A30 underpass is almost certainly a home for rare bats. At what stage does a derelict railway require an environmental survey before the 6 inch girth trees are felled on the track?

The line was used by the Dartmoor Rly until the end of 2019 and then by the relaying trains (for the locos to run round) for the 2021 reopening of the Okehampton service. 6in girth trees- I don't think so - the climate of Dartmoor is most definitely not sub-tropical.

 

[grahamshevlin]

All very interesting.
From what I can tell, the last train movement on the line beyond Okehampton was a train dumping spoil on the site of the Military Sidings in April 2022. The spoil came from the improvement works at Fatherford cutting.
The most likely outcome has to be overnight trains, using the current physical token kept at Crediton. Run a light loco up after the last passenger train, loco couples up and comes down with full stone train. Next movement is empties back up from Crediton, followed by a light loco run back to Crediton in the wee small hours. It would require at least 1 trains' worth of empties to be sent up to start the process. Movement of full train and empties could take place on different nights, depending on how much stone is being created.
The good news is that the movements will require less time than they used to, because of the improvement in line speed east of Okehampton. Unless they lay new track, I would expect a severe speed restriction from Meldon down to Okehampton.

don’t know, but wouldn’t that be covered in the planning consent?

As I recall, some of the work carried out by Network Rail in 2021 to remove vegetation and reinstate drainage and telecomms had to be pre-approved by government bodies because of the impact on wildlife.

 

[trainmania100]

All very interesting.
From what I can tell, the last train movement on the line beyond Okehampton was a train dumping spoil on the site of the Military Sidings in April 2022. The spoil came from the improvement works at Fatherford cutting.
The most likely outcome has to be overnight trains, using the current physical token kept at Crediton. Run a light loco up after the last passenger train, loco couples up and comes down with full stone train. Next movement is empties back up from Crediton, followed by a light loco run back to Crediton in the wee small hours. It would require at least 1 trains' worth of empties to be sent up to start the process. Movement of full train and empties could take place on different nights, depending on how much stone is being created.
The good news is that the movements will require less time than they used to, because of the improvement in line speed east of Okehampton. Unless they lay new track, I would expect a severe speed restriction from Meldon down to Okehampton.


As I recall, some of the work carried out by Network Rail in 2021 to remove vegetation and reinstate drainage and telecomms had to be pre-approved by government bodies because of the impact on wildlife.

Lovely photos in that article shame I missed the works.

 

[paul1609]

The line was used by the Dartmoor Rly until the end of 2019 and then by the relaying trains (for the locos to run round) for the 2021 reopening of the Okehampton service. 6in girth trees- I don't think so - the climate of Dartmoor is most definitely not sub-tropical.

Was trying to find the photos I took without any luck but this is the Google Streetview from last summer from Tors Rd over bridge. The ex railway is to the
left of the cycle path. I'd be surprised if mainline locos made it this far in 2021. About half of the length is worn out (minimum head) bullhead rail with very rotten wooden sleepers. When I walked alongside there were areas the track was completely flooded. If you click the other dates at the bottom you can see how the growth has progressed.

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