Could Waterloo - Exeter trains be extended to Okehampton?

[Bald Rick]

There are serious proposals to reopen the route via Okehampton supported by the re-opening your railways programme, all local authorities and NR

It’s not supported by the reopening your railways programme - it didn’t get funding in any of the rounds. Which means it doesn’t have Government support. So, I’m afraid, it’s not going anywhere, regardless of my opinion.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

But why here, and not for where there is already demand, eg St Ives or Falmouth?

I would wager because that's how the old service pattern went decades ago. I admit I was going to post the idea here once but never got around to it.

Although I like the idea, is Oakhampton not a bit far from London in a 159?

 

[REVUpminster]

Different stock, I think - Barnstaples are 158s at the moment, aren't they? it's a fairly long route with few stops, vs Exmouth-Paignton being the other way. Running the Honiton/Axminsters out to Okehampton might work, if there's any point ( from a utilisation point of view rather than people wanting to go from Honiton to Okehampton a lot... ).

--

NR's document on the WoE line accepted it probably needs work, no plans for more than adding some new loops ( I think this is the right NR document )- definitely not redoubling the lot at the moment. Needs more flexibility at the Exeter end ( but that's been done to death recently in other threads ). From browsing 50s timetables the current service is still quicker to Exeter bar the ACE, which was 10 mins faster... ( tube to Paddington & GWR still thrashes both, obviously ).

If you want people to use trains to take them to the seaside, best ask for trains that can take them to the seaside, not to Plymouth!

Okehampton is part of the Devon Metro. One day it will be promoted as that but that is still an aspiration.
At the moment there are four 166s down here. Three usually work Paignton-Exmouth but lately one or even two have been working to Barnstaple. A 158 working Paignton -Exmouth. 150s,166s, and 158s are all cleared to work to Okehampton and have been their on training and gauging runs.

When SWR trains or it's predecessor withdrew 159s dividing at Exeter with one unit going to Plymouth and the other to Paignton the future was set.
Okehampton trains or the proposed Wellington (starting at Taunton) Metro trains could go to Axminster but that require more double tracking.

 

[The Ham]

It’s not supported by the reopening your railways programme - it didn’t get funding in any of the rounds. Which means it doesn’t have Government support. So, I’m afraid, it’s not going anywhere, regardless of my opinion.

Although the line to Tavistock from Plymouth is and that maybe the cause of confusion.

Although once both branches are running the ongoing cost for running trains on a through line would likely be similar (as you'd need the same amount of rolling stock) and certainly close enough that a fairly small number of extra passengers (Tavistock/Exeter and Okehampton/Plymouth) could likely result in no extra ongoing subsidy. However such discussions have been covered on other threads several times and is off topic for here.

 

[TXMISTA]

I would wager because that's how the old service pattern went decades ago. I admit I was going to post the idea here once but never got around to it.

Although I like the idea, is Oakhampton not a bit far from London in a 159?

I’d rather travel that distance on a 159 than an IET, but that’s just my personal preference

 

[21C101]

But why here, and not for where there is already demand, eg St Ives or Falmouth?

For one reason, there are not currently hourly trains to Waterloo and two hourly trains to Paddington terminating at Truro or St Erth.

 

[Bald Rick]

For one reason, there are not currently hourly trains to Waterloo and two hourly trains to Paddington terminating at Truro or St Erth.

That’s the best reason I’ve heard so far...

 

[Irascible]

Okehampton has a direct track from Waterloo via Exeter, St Ives does not. Oke has a platform long enough to accommodate the trains, the reversing platform at St Erth and St Ives station do not, the passing loop & bay on the Falmouth branch are too short.

Falmouth had direct trains to Paddington in diesel days ( I've no idea when they stopped, late 70s? ). A passing loop only needs to be as long as the short train. Is Falmouth Docks currently long enough to take a 5 car IET? ( is an IET even cleared for it... ). What relevance has the bay got?

Although I like the idea, is Oakhampton not a bit far from London in a 159?

Not that much further than Exeter! like an above poster, I'd far rather do it in a 159 than an IET.

 

[21C101]

If Okehampton is going to be a bus interchange fo a rail link bus onward to Tavistock (which it already is from day 1) then timekeeping starts to become quite critical.

The 118 bus to the town and onto Tavistock that meets it has connections of 10 munites or less, meaning that delays at the London end of a through train will inhibit the local service and cause people to miss their bus.

The Stagecoach buses from Exeter to Bude and Launceston don't currently connect but run past the parkway station site.

I think, if the hourly service does start next year (I'm quite astonished that it will get this level of service) through trains beyond Exeter are less of an issue, providing Okehampton services run direct to Exeter Central.

Worth remembering also that in the days of through trains, many spent up to 15-20 minutes at Exeter shunting together portions and changing locos.

I think the biggest hurdle to overcome with an IET or 159 through service is that unless you do it all day, you have the branch set and crew kicking around idle for several hours,

Barnstaple has the added problem of a very tight turnaround (Okehampton will be quite comfortable once the 40mph between Crediton and Coleford is renewed next year and increased to the 75mph now ruling west of Coleford).

 

[paul1609]

If Okehampton is going to be a bus interchange fo a rail link bus onward to Tavistock (which it already is from day 1) then timekeeping starts to become quite critical.

The 118 bus to the town and onto Tavistock that meets it has connections of 10 munites or less, meaning that delays at the London end of a through train will inhibit the local service and cause people to miss their bus.

The Stagecoach buses from Exeter to Bude and Launceston don't currently connect but run past the parkway station site.

I think, if the hourly service does start next year (I'm quite astonished that it will get this level of service) through trains beyond Exeter are less of an issue, providing Okehampton services run direct to Exeter Central.

Worth remembering also that in the days of through trains, many spent up to 15-20 minutes at Exeter shunting together portions and changing locos.

I think the biggest hurdle to overcome with an IET or 159 through service is that unless you do it all day, you have the branch set and crew kicking around idle for several hours,

Barnstaple has the added problem of a very tight turnaround (Okehampton will be quite comfortable once the 40mph between Crediton and Coleford is renewed next year and increased to the 75mph now ruling west of Coleford).

Crediton to Coleford Junction is a little over 4 miles, assuming that all trains stop at Crediton and that the limit through the site of the former junction can be increased to line speed the theoretical time gain 40 to 75mph is a little under 2 mins taking acceleration and braking into account. I reckon a realistic timetable reduction would be 1 min in each direction assuming the pathing in to out of Exeter works out. A stop at the proposed parkway station would easily wipe out any gains.

 

[reddragon]

I can't see how a line with predominantly 40 mph limits, old signalling, single track etc couldn't easily be upgraded for faster journeys! The opportunities here are abundant!

 

[21C101]

I can't see how a line with predominantly 40 mph limits, old signalling, single track etc couldn't easily be upgraded for faster journeys! The opportunities here are abundant!

Most of it already has been, its just Crediton to Coleford that hasn't (due for track renewal next year allegedly).

What would make the biggest time difference to both journey time and reliability, would be to reinstate Coleford Junction, turning two four mile lony parallel single lines into a four mile long dynamic loop and eliminating 5 minute dwell times at the "static" loop at Crediton.

That dosen't seem to be on the agenda yet though (to be fair they have already gone further than I expected them to).

 

[matacaster]

Crossrail cannot be extended to Okehampton, the class 345s have no toilets

I am pretty confident in same situation Ryanair would have sold empty bottles and shepees at an exorbitant price to overcome the problem

 

[21C101]

I am pretty confident in same situation Ryanair would have sold empty bottles and shepees at an exorbitant price to overcome the problem

Don't give some of our TOCs ideas......

 

[Cowley]

I really think that we’re getting somewhere pretty good with local services and connectivity in this area of Devon now and I don’t think the time is right to start over complicating things by trying to run before we can walk.
Exeter st David’s is a natural hub for the area and an easy to use station for changing trains onto nippy(ish) local service to the various parts of Devon that it serves.

I’d far rather that we continue on the current trajectory and bring Axminster properly into the Devon Metro scheme, get Okehampton Parkway up running and then maybe look at Cullompton and Wellington to start getting some of the traffic off the creaking local road network personally speaking.

Maybe in ten years time it might be worth taking another look at this but there are so many possible wins that are achievable with the right will that are more important to concentrate on first.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Falmouth had direct trains to Paddington in diesel days ( I've no idea when they stopped, late 70s? ). A passing loop only needs to be as long as the short train. Is Falmouth Docks currently long enough to take a 5 car IET? ( is an IET even cleared for it... ). What relevance has the bay got?

Unfortunately the loop at Penryn goes against this, as the crossing trains use the same platform face. Therefore your hypothetical "long" train will either prevent the train in the other direction from accessing the platform, or will only have some vehicles platformed.

If the London train runs fast from Falmouth to Truro you might be able to make it work, but calling at Penryn wouldn't be possible without cancelling at least one return trip on the branch.

 

[REVUpminster]

I really think that we’re getting somewhere pretty good with local services and connectivity in this area of Devon now and I don’t think the time is right to start over complicating things by trying to run before we can walk.
Exeter st David’s is a natural hub for the area and an easy to use station for changing trains onto nippy(ish) local service to the various parts of Devon that it serves.

I’d far rather that we continue on the current trajectory and bring Axminster properly into the Devon Metro scheme, get Okehampton Parkway up running and then maybe look at Cullompton and Wellington to start getting some of the traffic off the creaking local road network personally speaking.

Maybe in ten years time it might be worth taking another look at this but there are so many possible wins that are achievable with the right will that are more important to concentrate on first.

I agree with this but three key things need to happen. One extend platform 2 at Exeter St David's; I believe non GWR staff still use some of the accommodation that needs to be knocked down. The money is there to do it. Two extend the loops between Axminster and Pinhoe. Three. 769's coming on stream to allow 165s to come west.

 

[Irascible]

Return access to all platforms at St D from Central, too. I don't think you can do anything about not being able to clear from Central without a route all the way into St D without resignalling though?