Could we see regular, scheduled services between Manchester and Sheffield calling at Hazel Grove?

[Pacco]

Moderator note: Split from

New Mills Central landslip - 6 week closure

I’m hearing reports that the land next to the track has subsided at New Mills Central. This comes after a 5mph emergency speed restriction imposed by Network Rail, which has been in place for a prolonged period of time. It’s been said that the earth besides the track has been moving, although...

www.railforums.co.uk

To echo earlier posts the fast service from MAN to SPT to HAZ is very much welcome, much faster than the Class 150 Buxton stopper, plus a/c AND not an old deafening engine.

Yesterday at Hazel Grove there was a very busy platform with passengers waiting to embark on an afternoon service to Sheffield.

It will be interesting to see any impact on passenger stats at Hazel Grove as it has been in place such a long time now.

Any argument for keeping this routing, at least in part after the works are completed?

 

[dh57]

To echo earlier posts the fast service from MAN to SPT to HAZ is very much welcome, much faster than the Class 150 Buxton stopper, plus a/c AND not an old deafening engine.

Yesterday at Hazel Grove there was a very busy platform with passengers waiting to embark on an afternoon service to Sheffield.

It will be interesting to see any impact on passenger stats at Hazel Grove as it has been in place such a long time now.

Any argument for keeping this routing, at least in part after the works are completed?

None as far as I am concerned. I live in Romiley and need to go to Sheffield twice a week and it is right pain at the moment.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It will be interesting to see any impact on passenger stats at Hazel Grove as it has been in place such a long time now.

Any argument for keeping this routing, at least in part after the works are completed?

Perhaps wishful thinking, but having used the currently diverted Northern service running directly between Hazel Grove and Hope via Chinley/Edale just last Monday, it would, IMHO, be a significant service improvement if there were in future to be both the hourly Manchester-Sheffield stoppers routed via Stockport and Hazel Grove, and then another stopper routed via Marple and New Mills Central, as and when that latter route is open again.

 

[geoffk]

To echo earlier posts the fast service from MAN to SPT to HAZ is very much welcome, much faster than the Class 150 Buxton stopper, plus a/c AND not an old deafening engine.

Yesterday at Hazel Grove there was a very busy platform with passengers waiting to embark on an afternoon service to Sheffield.

It will be interesting to see any impact on passenger stats at Hazel Grove as it has been in place such a long time now.

Any argument for keeping this routing, at least in part after the works are completed?

also a regular service between Chinley and Stockport.

 

[Pete 1981]

Perhaps wishful thinking, but having used the currently diverted Northern service running directly between Hazel Grove and Hope via Chinley/Edale just last Monday, it would, IMHO, be a significant service improvement if there were in future to be both the hourly Manchester-Sheffield stoppers routed via Stockport and Hazel Grove, and then another stopper routed via Marple and New Mills Central, as and when that latter route is open again.

Not if you live in Reddish, we're down to 1 train per hour.I travel to Sheffield 4-5 times a month and it's made it a bit of a trek.

To echo earlier posts the fast service from MAN to SPT to HAZ is very much welcome, much faster than the Class 150 Buxton stopper, plus a/c AND not an old deafening engine.

Yesterday at Hazel Grove there was a very busy platform with passengers waiting to embark on an afternoon service to Sheffield.

It will be interesting to see any impact on passenger stats at Hazel Grove as it has been in place such a long time now.

Any argument for keeping this routing, at least in part after the works are completed?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

None as far as I am concerned. I live in Romiley and need to go to Sheffield twice a week and it is right pain at the moment.

Not if you live in Reddish, we're down to 1 train per hour.I travel to Sheffield 4-5 times a month and it's made it a bit of a trek.

Didn't say that the Northern stopper via Reddish North and Romiley should be binned off, but it was only ever an hourly service direct to Sheffield via New Mills Central, wasn't it? Just suggesting that the current arrangement whereby the stopper is routed via Stockport/Hazel Grove opens up additional journey opportunities. Be good to have the both, IMHO, but appreciate we may be drifting off into the territory of speculative discussion now.

 

[unlevel42]

To echo earlier posts the fast service from MAN to SPT to HAZ is very much welcome, much faster than the Class 150 Buxton stopper, plus a/c AND not an old deafening engine.

Yesterday at Hazel Grove there was a very busy platform with passengers waiting to embark on an afternoon service to Sheffield.

It will be interesting to see any impact on passenger stats at Hazel Grove as it has been in place such a long time now.

Any argument for keeping this routing, at least in part after the works are completed?

Changing at Hazel Grove to a taxi(or a bus) is an excellent and reliable way of travelling between Sheffield an Manchester Airport.
1 especially since the A555 is now completed, taxi takes 15 minutes to the terminal you want
2 no through trains anymore(1 exception still), now takes 52+ minutes
3 199 Airport Buxton bus (very early to late, every 20-30m) is a 5 minute walk away and takes 50m.
Also better for the Buxton line(an extension of the Derbyshire Wayfarer to include Hazel Grove would be a bonus).

 

[edwin_m]

I can't see the very rural stops at Edale, Hope, Bamford and Grindleford getting more than one train per hour. Perhaps the timetable can accommodate a semi-fast via one route, that calls at Chinley, Hathersage (maybe) and Dore only, with the all-stations taking the other route.

 

[Pacco]

Changing at Hazel Grove to a taxi(or a bus) is an excellent and reliable way of travelling between Sheffield an Manchester Airport.
1 especially since the A555 is now completed, taxi takes 15 minutes to the terminal you want
2 no through trains anymore(1 exception still), now takes 52+ minutes
3 199 Airport Buxton bus (very early to late, every 20-30m) is a 5 minute walk away and takes 50m.
Also better for the Buxton line(an extension of the Derbyshire Wayfarer to include Hazel Grove would be a bonus).

This is a strong argument I hadn't considered actually.

Hazel Grove and Stockport both offer excellent connections to onward travel, especially once Stockport and eventually Hazel Grove are connected to the Metrolink tram network.

I do think there is an argument for an express bus service from Stockport routed via Hazel Grove to the airport along the A555. Not sure what that would mean for the existing bus from Buxton to the airport via Stockport, but it would make a Sheffield service even more compelling.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Moderator note: Split from

New Mills Central landslip - 6 week closure

I’m hearing reports that the land next to the track has subsided at New Mills Central. This comes after a 5mph emergency speed restriction imposed by Network Rail, which has been in place for a prolonged period of time. It’s been said that the earth besides the track has been moving, although...

www.railforums.co.uk

To echo earlier posts the fast service from MAN to SPT to HAZ is very much welcome, much faster than the Class 150 Buxton stopper, plus a/c AND not an old deafening engine.

Yesterday at Hazel Grove there was a very busy platform with passengers waiting to embark on an afternoon service to Sheffield.

It will be interesting to see any impact on passenger stats at Hazel Grove as it has been in place such a long time now.

Any argument for keeping this routing, at least in part after the works are completed?

I think it's going to difficult justifying the stopper being routed via Stockport instead of via Marple, but we could well do with a permanent call on the TPE/EMR at Hazel Grove for the connectivity (providing that long-lasting firmer staff rostering arrangements are made for both TOCs soon).

Of course this isn't perfect and doesn't solve the Stockport to Chinley service case, but that could be done cheaply if there was demand by extending the 358 Stagecoach bus from Hayfield.

 

[Tayway]

In the future could you curtail the stopper at Chinley but continue running it through New Mills Central? This could then connect with the Sheffield train which would go via Hazel Grove.

 

[florence]

Of course this isn't perfect and doesn't solve the Stockport to Chinley service case, but that could be done cheaply if there was demand by extending the 358 Stagecoach bus from Hayfield.

The problem with that is there are 2 low bridges in the vicinity of Chinley, one at Buxworth which would affect anything coming from the A6 and the other one affecting anything from Hayfield. The 358 regularly uses double decker vehicles.

 

[yorksrob]

The Hazel Grove diversion makes it a lot easier to get between the Hope Valley stations and Buxton.

The Northern stopper always seems busy to me. Why not have two stoppers an four, one via each route.

 

[dh57]

Isn't the biggest issue capacity at Stockport now that HS2 has been cancelled so all London trains have to continue through there?

 

[py_megapixel]

None as far as I am concerned. I live in Romiley and need to go to Sheffield twice a week and it is right pain at the moment.

Not if you live in Reddish, we're down to 1 train per hour.I travel to Sheffield 4-5 times a month and it's made it a bit of a trek.

There seems to be a reasonable amount of empty space around Chinley station. I've often thought the best solution would be to rebuild Chinley station with a bay platform, and then have a half-hourly Manchester-Romiley-Chinley service, with one of the two trains per hour connecting with a Sheffield stopper routed via Stockport.

This would be quite an expensive solution, though, and is unlikely to be high on anyone's list of priorities.

 

[furnessvale]

There seems to be a reasonable amount of empty space around Chinley station. I've often thought the best solution would be to rebuild Chinley station with a bay platform, and then have a half-hourly Manchester-Romiley-Chinley service, with one of the two trains per hour connecting with a Sheffield stopper routed via Stockport.

This would be quite an expensive solution, though, and is unlikely to be high on anyone's list of priorities.

Even better, run the train through to a reopened Chapel central station and turnback there.

 

[yorksrob]

There seems to be a reasonable amount of empty space around Chinley station. I've often thought the best solution would be to rebuild Chinley station with a bay platform, and then have a half-hourly Manchester-Romiley-Chinley service, with one of the two trains per hour connecting with a Sheffield stopper routed via Stockport.

This would be quite an expensive solution, though, and is unlikely to be high on anyone's list of priorities.

It used to have at least one other island platform, hence the space.

 

[D365]

The Hazel Grove diversion makes it a lot easier to get between the Hope Valley stations and Buxton.

Especially as the 66 bus [Sheffield-Grindleford-Tideswell-Buxton] is next-to-useless these days.

There seems to be a reasonable amount of empty space around Chinley station. I've often thought the best solution would be to rebuild Chinley station with a bay platform, and then have a half-hourly Manchester-Romiley-Chinley service, with one of the two trains per hour connecting with a Sheffield stopper routed via Stockport.

This would be quite an expensive solution, though, and is unlikely to be high on anyone's list of priorities.

Even better, run the train through to a reopened Chapel central station and turnback there.

Absolutely concur. This is the speculative subforum, after all.

 

[Killingworth]

It used to have at least one other island platform, hence the space.

As it used to be, but much of that land has been sold off or otherwise redeveloped.

The originally announced Hope Valley Capacity Scheme in 2013 included another loop at Chinley to permit 2 extra hourly fast services.

That got knocked on the head very early on - insufficient capacity through Manchester, Stockport, Hazel Grove and Sheffield.

None as far as I am concerned. I live in Romiley and need to go to Sheffield twice a week and it is right pain at the moment.

I live in Sheffield and like to walk the canals around Marple but haven't done so this year, that's a pain too!

 

[Starmill]

The Hazel Grove diversion makes it a lot easier to get between the Hope Valley stations and Buxton.

It only cuts out a ten minute walk at New Mills.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It only cuts out a ten minute walk at New Mills.

Just how fast do you walk?

The old GB National Rail Timetable always used to state 25 minutes as being the transfer time required between New Mills Newtown and New Mills Central stations, on foot.

 

[Starmill]

Just how fast do you walk?

The old GB National Rail Timetable always used to state 25 minutes as being the transfer time required between New Mills Newtown and New Mills Central stations, on foot.

That's a very reasonable minimum connection time for the walk.

 

[507020]

With SOME additional capacity now available, although not enough for an additional fast path, there may be some case for a new service pattern than reinstating the previous 2tph fast via Hazel Grove, 1tph slow via NMC.

What about running fast to Piccadilly via NMC (although couldn’t go to Lime Street) and using new resilience for additional calls in Lime Street services at Hazel Grove, Chinley, Dore & Totley and perhaps other stations, even Guide Bridge (also call Huddersfield services at Guide Bridge for connections) with the stopper either alternating between NMC and Hazel Grove, but always keeping 2tph slow Piccadilly - New Mills Central. Permanent Sheffield services would be better use of resources than Diesels under the wires Piccadilly - Hazel Grove only in the absence of 2tph to Buxton.

Non-stop Stockport - Sheffield has never been very good for connectivity. Given the location of New Mills South Junction, it is optimal to have the stopper reach there and therefore Chinley only a few minutes after the fast, with no need to call at both New Mills Central and Chinley to connect into the fast, so could you have a fast run Piccadilly, (Guide Bridge), Chinley, Dore & Totley, Sheffield followed immediately by a stopper which has come from Hazel Grove. Hazel Grove and Chinley are sufficiently far apart that this doesn’t really compromise its really compromise its role as an express.

On second thought, should the stopper run via New Mills Central, with all fasts just calling at Hazel Grove and then Chinley as I have described for connections to Buxton, New Mills Central and Guide Bridge (even if this is at Romiley) and more at Dore & Totley? There is likely a case already for additional services already, even especially if this isn’t in the form of just another hourly non-stop Stockport - Sheffield.

 

[D365]

Just how fast do you walk?

The old GB National Rail Timetable always used to state 25 minutes as being the transfer time required between New Mills Newtown and New Mills Central stations, on foot.

Aye it’s definitely not a ten minute connection at walking pace. Especially as it’s uphill to Newtown.

 

[AlastairFraser]

In the future could you curtail the stopper at Chinley but continue running it through New Mills Central? This could then connect with the Sheffield train which would go via Hazel Grove.

There is usually an hourly New Mills Central stopping terminator, this may be a candidate for extension to Chinley (especially if they could squeeze in a Hazel Grove AND a Chinley stop on the EMR service).

The problem with that is there are 2 low bridges in the vicinity of Chinley, one at Buxworth which would affect anything coming from the A6 and the other one affecting anything from Hayfield. The 358 regularly uses double decker vehicles.

I was thinking about that bridge at Chapel Milton - in hindsight, I think my extension of the New Mills Central terminator to Chinley is a better idea!

Aye it’s definitely not a ten minute connection at walking pace. Especially as it’s uphill to Newtown.

Plus the direct route past Torr Vale Mill and through the woodland in the Goyt valley needs a lot of extra care taken in the unpredictable High Peak weather.

I remember engineering works between Hazel Grove and New Mills Newtown once, where they were directing people to catch the Manchester train from New Mills Central if heading to Piccadilly.

For this blockade, no replacement bus was provided to link Newtown and Central stations, and the weather meant the roads were very icy.

It was an absolute death trap trying to make the connection Newtown down the valley into Central.

 

[yorksrob]

As it used to be, but much of that land has been sold off or otherwise redeveloped.
View attachment 161813
The originally announced Hope Valley Capacity Scheme in 2013 included another loop at Chinley to permit 2 extra hourly fast services.

That got knocked on the head very early on - insufficient capacity through Manchester, Stockport, Hazel Grove and Sheffield.


I live in Sheffield and like to walk the canals around Marple but haven't done so this year, that's a pain too!

That's a good picture.

It only cuts out a ten minute walk at New Mills.

Well, there's the ten minute traipse, then the half hour wait at New Mills.

The change at Hazel grove is over the footbridge then about 10 - 15 mins.

 

[stra200]

Changing at Hazel Grove to a taxi(or a bus) is an excellent and reliable way of travelling between Sheffield an Manchester Airport.
1 especially since the A555 is now completed, taxi takes 15 minutes to the terminal you want
2 no through trains anymore(1 exception still), now takes 52+ minutes
3 199 Airport Buxton bus (very early to late, every 20-30m) is a 5 minute walk away and takes 50m.
Also better for the Buxton line(an extension of the Derbyshire Wayfarer to include Hazel Grove would be a bonus).

Sorry for the slight tangent, but does anyone know who would be best to contact about suggesting extending the Derbyshire wayfarer to Hazel Grove (or more optimistically Stockport) temporarily as maybe compensation for the line closure?

I have to travel between NMC and ILN, and now they've retimed the rail replacement bus, theyve made it far worse with nearly an hour wait in Chinley, followed by the normal hour wait in SHF. More platform time than travelling.
It's £40 to go the suggested way now via Stockport (although looks like they've fixed national rail now to also suggest chinley), but the cheaper Wayfarer also allows me to go SHF to DBY then bus on the fly when the NOT train is cancelled.
It's now about the same amount of time to just take the 61, Transpeak and IF buses for £6, but they don't run as late

 

[30907]

On second thought, should the stopper run via New Mills Central, with all fasts just calling at Hazel Grove and then Chinley as I have described for connections to Buxton, New Mills Central and Guide Bridge (even if this is at Romiley) and more at Dore & Totley? There is likely a case already for additional services already, even especially if this isn’t in the form of just another hourly non-stop Stockport - Sheffield.

If capacity could be found at Stockport and Sheffield, then yes. Without that, the most useful connection would be provided by an additional stop at Chinley all day for Stockport-Hope Valley stations. Hazel Grove would be less of a priority for me, as Buxton traffic could double-back via Stockport, though it might be possible to fit the stop in, being close to the medium-speed junction.
(It would ideally require retiming the Hope Valley stopper to provide a tighter connection at Chinley, but I suspect that would be problematic at the Sheffield end.)

 

[Starmill]

Well, there's the ten minute traipse, then the half hour wait at New Mills.

The change at Hazel grove is over the footbridge then about 10 - 15 mins.

Then adds more time as you go from New Mills to Hazel Grove then back to New Mills.

 

[yorksrob]

Then adds more time as you go from New Mills to Hazel Grove then back to New Mills.

It does, but in the relative comfort of the train.