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Couplers

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badassunicorn

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Hello,
Does anybody know why EMU's on the southern region don't have electrical connection blocks like say, on the GEML. From a shunters perspective its easy to couple/uncouple 321's etc as you don't have to faff about connecting pipes and jacks, why did they not fit 455's etc with these?
Personally I think all trains should be like 360's to couple up, bang on, job done!
 
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Chrisgr31

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What really surprises me is that all the couplers aren't a common fit. I would have thought it would make sense for the couplers on trains to be the same to make recovery easier if nothing else.
 

455driver

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The Southern have always prefered pipes on the front, they got the 508s with boxes but then went bact to the pipes for the 455 so they could couple (with an adapter) to all the slammers.

it was a good idea then but times have moved on now so it looks silly.
 

Monty

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Did the 455s need an adapter to couple with a 400 series unit? I was under the impression that a 455's tightlock coupler had some degree of compatibility with the buckeye. :)
 
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Not sure on the 455 question. The 458/5 is moving to dellner from tightlock as on the 458/0 to standardise with the Desiro. They can couple together for emergency purposes. No electrical compatability though.
 

Nym

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Not sure on the 455 question. The 458/5 is moving to dellner from tightlock as on the 458/0 to standardise with the Desiro. They can couple together for emergency purposes. No electrical compatability though.

You've hit the nail on the head as to why couplers tend not to be compatable...

Chances are, even if you can pass air to the other unit, it's not electrically compatable anyway.
 

swt_passenger

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Hello,
Does anybody know why EMU's on the southern region don't have electrical connection blocks like say, on the GEML. From a shunters perspective its easy to couple/uncouple 321's etc as you don't have to faff about connecting pipes and jacks, why did they not fit 455's etc with these?
Personally I think all trains should be like 360's to couple up, bang on, job done!

But the vast majority now DO have electrical connection blocks. It's only the oldest stuff, such as 455 (that you mention), or 456 that doesn't. AFAICS the vast majority of the three combined fleets (SE/SN/SWT) all work just like the 360 that you mention.
 
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hairyhandedfool

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Hello,
Does anybody know why EMU's on the southern region don't have electrical connection blocks like say, on the GEML. From a shunters perspective its easy to couple/uncouple 321's etc as you don't have to faff about connecting pipes and jacks, why did they not fit 455's etc with these?
Personally I think all trains should be like 360's to couple up, bang on, job done!

Think about what units the 455s and 456s had to mingle with. 319s have electrical connection blocks and can mechanically couple with the old slam door stock, but there needs to be a driver present in both units to control the brakes as there is no common brake pipe connection (there is an emergency 'main air' pipe, though it requires going to track level to fit it). Given the 455 and 456 units stay on the Southern Region it makes more sense for them to have 'waist height' pipes.
 

455driver

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Did the 455s need an adapter to couple with a 400 series unit? I was under the impression that a 455's tightlock coupler had some degree of compatibility with the buckeye. :)

I think we had to use the mushroom and pin to couple to buckeye stock, they certainly cant couple to screwlink stock because of the lack of buffers.

All mute now as the mushrooms have been taken out of the emergency cupboard, I will try and find the old books on the subject.
 

hairyhandedfool

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I seem to recall the equipment being refered to as a 'mushroom and toadstool'. IIRC, the 'Mushroom' (short and fat) fitted in the top of the Buckeye and the 'Toadstool' (tall and thin) was secured into the Tightlock.
 

zn1

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the PEPs were built with autocouplers,

The southern as always wanting things done the southern way went to waist height couplings to enable full rescue capabilty from the slammers, class 73 & 33 locos,
Class 456 was the last to have this built in to the design and it ruined the look of the front..

also there is a safety aspect to this...it is hell of a lot safer for the shunter/guard when coupling up/breaking units apart..unless there is an issue where the drophead buckeye is dropped the shunter never had a reason to go on the deck and risk being stung by juice rail

class 442 had them fitted at waist height also - for use when hauled by conventi
class 310/12 were also fitted with this system..

Today with 313-390/450 series units this is no longer a problem with westcode/delner/ scharfenberg and tightlock auto couplings now the standard.

buckeye couplings now are used commonly on freight wagons with the new fleets having buckeyes fitted

class 90 was the first loco to have a Buckeye fitted as standard...not used during the first days of operation and the emergency screw coupling used(red coupling)
 

455driver

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Today with 313-390/450 series units this is no longer a problem with westcode/delner/ scharfenberg and tightlock auto couplings now the standard.

The irony of 3 'standard' couplings! :lol:
 
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Electrical heads are more prone to damage than jumpers. If there's anything iffy about the track you can get a bad attachment, not an issue with jumpers. One station the stop point has had to move because the track is so poor at that point, the units coupling were having issues. Aesthetically speaking it's obvious what is better though....
 

badassunicorn

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I quite like the exposed jumpers and pipes, i like when trains look utilitarian and kind of industrial on the outside as opposed to pendolinos etc.
 

swt_passenger

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Hence me saying 3 couplers not 4.

'Dellner' is not strictly a coupler type, they manufacture the same thing as Scharfenberg under licence. When you include suffix numbers 10/12/330 they are still variants of the same coupler and are intended to be mechanically compatible if built to drawing. RSSB's standards documents on couplers group them all together as coupler type M007. (They highlight that the 390 is fitted at a 'non-standard height'.)

If you discount the 458's obsolescent AAR, (which is being removed under the current work), post privatisation EMUs are effectively standardised on Dellner/Scharfenberg, I think because it is also the specified coupling under TSIs.

There is probably no appetite for refitting all the earlier 'Tightlock' fitted EMUs, as in general they'll never need to multiple with a modern unit.

As always though, the electrical connection boxes are a complete nightmare of individual design, as are onboard electronic systems. Mechanical coupling for rescue purposes will probably remain the only possibility even if all couplings can latch together in the medium term.

It also seems to me that the BSI has been allowed to become the de-facto small [1] DMU standard because until recent times the country has been assumed to have huge areas that are mainly DMU and others that are mainly EMU operated, and there are only relatively minor overlaps; so no-one has really seen DMU/EMU rescue compatibility as important. (The 171 is the only evidence of this.) But you can think that a TOC such as Northern or FGW wouldn't have seen much to worry about.

[1] ie not 220/221/222

Of course the expansion of electrification will probably put a different emphasis on this.
 
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