• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Cowboy Operators a thing of the past?

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
15,061
Location
Isle of Man
Hulleys were certainly going in that direction towards the end of their life
I think that's unfair, but it is close between being a cowboy and being stuck in a doom loop death spiral.

I'd say Hulleys were more the latter. If you're skint then non-essential maintenance does get put on the back burner and the consequence of that is that you get more breakdowns. More breakdowns means you can't run the service you're supposed to be running. And if you have fewer buses available then you try and work the remaining fleet much harder, so again service reliability goes out of the window.

And if you're skint you don't pay your staff so well and so the good ones leave. I don't think their buses were ever unroadworthy but some of the drivers were certainly 'characters' at the end.

For me the cowboys are the ones who seemingly never had any intention of doing things properly, e.g. Rhys Hand.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Gwr12345

Member
Joined
28 Jun 2020
Messages
177
Location
Delayed
I went on, while not meeting the strict definition, a cowboy-adjacent operator in Northern England, which shall remain nameless, last year.
I boarded with them (at the time) not accepting card, not issuing a ticket and the float being stored in the drivers pocket.

It was a shame, as I like them as an operator and the bus drivers are always nice etc, but it did seem a little too informal! I've been on them since and they do seem a lot better.
 
Last edited:

NorthOxonian

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
5 Jul 2018
Messages
1,558
Location
Oxford/Newcastle
Given the nature of this thread, may I remind everyone to be careful when posting, particularly in light of operators who may be identifiable or named and may dispute the label of "cowboy". In particular, please do not make any serious accusations of wrongdoing without evidence, especially for operators which remain extant. Anecdotal issues with a company are one thing but I'm aware this thread could stray into territory which might be more serious and could appear on search engines or the like!
 

The exile

Established Member
Joined
31 Mar 2010
Messages
5,185
Location
Somerset
Names which spring to mind are Sunny Travel,
They were responsible for the only time I got off a bus with no idea where I was (pre smartphone) purely because I didn’t fancy my chances of arriving in one piece if I stayed on. A route serving Adderley Park station, IIRC.
 

RustySpoons

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2019
Messages
824
Given the nature of this thread, may I remind everyone to be careful when posting, particularly in light of operators who may be identifiable or named and may dispute the label of "cowboy". In particular, please do not make any serious accusations of wrongdoing without evidence, especially for operators which remain extant. Anecdotal issues with a company are one thing but I'm aware this thread could stray into territory which might be more serious and could appear on search engines or the like!

Thanks, I was going to ask if people could back up any claims to avoid things potentially being labelled as slander

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I thinks this is the company you are on about

Very possibly, and also very likely too. I recall they also ran buses with 'Blackburn Transport Ltd' branding, alongside buses on services from Blackburn Transport.

I did also think it could have been M&M Coaches who were based in Accrington and ran a similar fleet of vehicles, although they were at least mostly branded and looked relatively road worthy. Although they no longer operate I recall that they did shut up shop just before a Public Enquiry. It did seem odd that their last day of operation was a Thursday.
 

aron2smith

Member
Joined
20 Jan 2025
Messages
94
Location
London
Harlow always used to good place to see some… interesting ways of operating buses. The independents there easily fitted the ‘cowboy operator’ stereotype. Some seemed to be linked to the same owners. I remember the angry drivers who often spoke little or no English, as well as the smell of used cooking oil - I’m sure it was used in the diesel (I could be talking rubbish there, but that’s what I had heard). As an enthusiast it was fascinating though, with a huge variety of different bus types, of varying quality!

Interestingly though, the major operator in Harlow wasn’t (and perhaps still isn’t) exactly much better. Some incredibly grumpy drivers and the common practice of paper-in-the-windscreen destinations.
Doesn't surprise me, Harlow is such a dumping ground for everything, the town deserves better and needs some consistency. Way before my time, but I couldn't believe how much better bus services were there when I looked in an old London Country timetable book that had a map of Harlow in the back. Whole sections of the town have no bus routes at all now, including along Southern Way being really noticeable, too many town services don't go to the rail station anymore, regional connectivity is very limited now. The 724 being all that's left of the handful of Greenline routes that once connected Harlow to so much of the region. What a waste.

Also what is really really frustrating is Harlow has gotten several hourly new routes to connect places to retail parks along Edinburgh Way and not a single bus stop has a timetable. ARGH! Harlow's buses need a complete makeover and a company who actually cares.
 

JD2168

Established Member
Joined
11 Jul 2022
Messages
1,404
Location
Sheffield
Possibly Globe Holidays or previously Tates Travel in Barnsley could be considered for this. Globe you have either at 20/21/22/24 plate Enviro200 MMC or a scruffy 07 plate that has seen better days with many not having the destination blind working.

Others in the Barnsley area now no longer running were:
Redline Buses

When MASS took over Leon before ending up running just school services they ran some odd routes in Doncaster where you went from a low floor decker in full Leon livery to an ex London Titan with no blinds & a tram board in the window
 

nick291

Member
Joined
7 Sep 2024
Messages
155
Location
Bristol
Possibly Globe Holidays or previously Tates Travel in Barnsley could be considered for this. Globe you have either at 20/21/22/24 plate Enviro200 MMC or a scruffy 07 plate that has seen better days with many not having the destination blind working.

Others in the Barnsley area now no longer running were:
Redline Buses

When MASS took over Leon before ending up running just school services they ran some odd routes in Doncaster where you went from a low floor decker in full Leon livery to an ex London Titan with no blinds & a tram board in the window
Brightbus MASS were an interesting operation at least, had several ex Hong Kong double deckers in their fleet.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
21,220
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
British Bus (Drawlane as was) weren't cowboys as such, but its practices left much to be desired. I remember Edinburgh Transport, an operation which it acquired with Stevenson's, being picked clean virtually overnight. There was also a reluctance to invest in fleet renewal during much of the group's existence, a slapdash approach to vehicle presentation, and the dodgy dealings behind the scenes which came to light after its sale to Cowie.
Even right at the start the signs were there when, as Drawlane and during the NBC privatisation, it tried to get around the NBC "no more than two companies per buyer" stipulation by establishing an alias, Allied Bus, to bid for a third one - a bid which was subsequently disqualified once Allied's true identity became known.

Definitely an odd bunch.
Given the nature of this thread, may I remind everyone to be careful when posting, particularly in light of operators who may be identifiable or named and may dispute the label of "cowboy". In particular, please do not make any serious accusations of wrongdoing without evidence, especially for operators which remain extant. Anecdotal issues with a company are one thing but I'm aware this thread could stray into territory which might be more serious and could appear on search engines or the like!
Quite. @DunsBus is right to recall the issue with Drawlane and Allied Bus (though it was THREE companies per buyer though Hampshire Bus was sold with Pilgrim Coaches).

However, more pertinent to cowboys and underhand activity is that of Drawlane boss Dawson Williams who was jailed for two years for fraud https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/exbritish-bus-chief-jailed-for-corruption-1237697.html
 

DunsBus

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2013
Messages
1,627
Location
Duns
Quite. @DunsBus is right to recall the issue with Drawlane and Allied Bus (though it was THREE companies per buyer though Hampshire Bus was sold with Pilgrim Coaches).

However, more pertinent to cowboys and underhand activity is that of Drawlane boss Dawson Williams who was jailed for two years for fraud https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/exbritish-bus-chief-jailed-for-corruption-1237697.html
Happy to be corrected about Drawlane and Allied Bus. :)

Just looked at the article. January 1992 to August 1994 straddles the final year of Drawlane and the first 19 months of British Bus. It certainly explains the almost total lack of group fleet renewal during that period. I'm sure that there were many, like me, who smelled a rat when news of Dawson Williams' dodgy dealings broke shortly after British Bus was sold to Cowie.
 

Man of Kent

Member
Joined
5 Jul 2018
Messages
737
Couldn't agree more.

I worked for one of the British Bus subsidaries in the group's dying days. The experience put me off from working in the bus industry for several years afterwards.

I don't think it's legacy is one that Arriva has ever been able to shake off properly, especially in the South East.
When British Bus purchased first Kentish Bus and then Maidstone & District, the investment in new buses was colossal. More than 70 new Dennis Dart SLFs, 25 Merc minis and about 18 Olympians all arrived with P registrations.
 

DunsBus

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2013
Messages
1,627
Location
Duns
When British Bus purchased first Kentish Bus and then Maidstone & District, the investment in new buses was colossal. More than 70 new Dennis Dart SLFs, 25 Merc minis and about 18 Olympians all arrived with P registrations.
Seem to recall that it was the promotion of the engineering directors from Northumbria (Kentish Bus's owners) and Maidstone & District to British Bus's board that resulted in the mass investment in new buses in its latter years.
It was certainly very welcome, as having a huge fleet of elderly vehicles across the group as a whole wasn't doing British Bus any favours.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
21,220
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Happy to be corrected about Drawlane and Allied Bus. :)

Just looked at the article. January 1992 to August 1994 straddles the final year of Drawlane and the first 19 months of British Bus. It certainly explains the almost total lack of group fleet renewal during that period. I'm sure that there were many, like me, who smelled a rat when news of Dawson Williams' dodgy dealings broke shortly after British Bus was sold to Cowie.
The problem was that Drawlane/BB was so focused on expansion that it couldn’t fund that AND fleet renewal especially when London expansion was soaking up capital.

It was about to float when Cowie bought them instead.
 
Joined
23 Nov 2023
Messages
353
Location
Grimsby
They were responsible for the only time I got off a bus with no idea where I was (pre smartphone) purely because I didn’t fancy my chances of arriving in one piece if I stayed on. A route serving Adderley Park station, IIRC.
Possibly, although I recall them on the 63 to Rubery. They ran a ridiculous timetable IIRC; something like two buses within ten minutes then a huge gap until the first one arrived back.
I did also think it could have been M&M Coaches who were based in Accrington and ran a similar fleet of vehicles, although they were at least mostly branded and looked relatively road worthy. Although they no longer operate I recall that they did shut up shop just before a Public Enquiry. It did seem odd that their last day of operation was a Thursday.
M&M got into trouble for continuing to run step-entrance Merc 709s after the deadline for going low floor.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Very possibly, and also very likely too. I recall they also ran buses with 'Blackburn Transport Ltd' branding, alongside buses on services from Blackburn Transport.
They were part of a group of companies run by a husband and wife team named Bailey, who were subsequently arrested on suspicion of fraud; however I have no idea whether they were charged or not.
There was Blackburn Transport Ltd (much to the annoyance of the actual Blackburn Transport of the time), Catch Me Bus and Buzy Bus. The first two ran in red, the latter in yellow.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

A few years later (c.2008) and also in Blackburn there was a dubious operator who ran ex-Arriva Mercedes 709's still in Arriva livery with paper destination labels. I've forgotten their identity and it seems the internet has as well!
 
Last edited:

markymark2000

Established Member
Joined
11 May 2015
Messages
4,172
Location
Western Part of the UK
Are there still any 'cowboy operators' still out there? Looking back to the 90s and early 2000s there seemed to be a bus operator in nearly every town that didn't appear to do things by the book. Vehicles looked shabby, probably not maintained very well and services would rarely run to time if at all.
There are a good number of cowboy operators still out there, though they 'cowboy' antics are now quite different to previous times. I can go through most counties now though and find at least 1 standout cowboy operator who I would categorise as fitting into the cowboy category very nicely.

I very much doubt you'd be able to get away with such things these days.
These days I'd argue there can be more things that you can get away with as enforcement feels like it has reduced.

One operator in Staffordshire regularly operates services not in line with the registration by operating early (more than the 1 minute early that the TC allows), on last trips of the day often terminates early then heads home rather than finishing the run, regularly provides buses which aren't in line with the council specification. Same operator can also be found running local bus services on a 30 minute round trip, with only 1 single timing point (to comply with the regulations that there should be a timing point every 15 minutes) so that if a traffic commissioner comes knocking, they can avoid being caught out for early running despite some buses in the morning arriving at the terminus 10 minutes early. The lack of timing points also means that drivers can (and do) go whatever way they want, some go through the estates, some don't. Because there is no timing point, passengers nor drivers know which way the bus is meant to go so is unlikely to raise it as an issue. Operator then refuses to comply properly with Bus Open Data regulations and provide full and correct data so then any passengers are unlikely to know when their bus is due either due to poor journey planning results.

That's an awful lot for 1 operator to be doing wrong. Yet multiple councils issue them with contracts.
Whenever contract breaches are raised with councils, the council sits back and says 'we will take it up with them' or 'nothing we can do', 'Live tracking is inconclusive even if the tracking shows the bus at 30 second intervals going back to the depot and not completing the trip' or the blinder that I love, 'it's deregulations fault' (yes, these are all genuine responses from local authorities when issues with tender compliance are raised), all because councils don't want to act upon the issues. Therefore bad operators get worse and worse because the Traffic Commissioner doesn't sort things which are within their remit. The councils don't want to/can't be bothered to act on the breaches despite having punishment clauses in the contract, they don't want to action these because when the route goes out to retender, they don't want to pay more. So they prefer a poor operator running a substandard service, rather than paying more for a good job well done. If there is no punishment, bad operators get worse. Sadly only Derbyshire Council has the backbone to pull contracts lately, and even then that was after a stupid amount of none compliance.


Another example that is becoming more and more prevalent over the past few years is cowboy operator upto dodgy things in terms of the vehicles. There are a good few cowboy operators who operate buses have no legal address lettering on the side of the bus, or deliberately trying to obscure it by using black letters on a very dark blue livery, not 'colour contrasting', or using letters which are certainly not 25milimetres tall as per COIF regulation 45 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1981/257/regulation/45/made). To be 25mm tall, that means that they would be bigger than a 20 pence piece, most of these would be covered by a 5p, let alone 20p.
On Rail Replacement, there seems to be a growing amount of people driving without a tachograph when the route would fall into scope. Having lots of drivers who aren't trained on the vehicles that they are driving and thus per DVSAs walkaround checklist, drivers can't possibly have completed the walkaround (Which states drivers should ensure is in good condition, and know how to work all accessibility equipment). Wheelchair lifts not working, drivers not trained on it's use, lack of wheelchair straps etc. One such event a month ago, 8 consecutive coaches were not fully PSVAR compliant despite claiming that they were and no PSVAR exemption certificates. This ranged from lack of training, to lifts not working, to no wheelchair straps etc. Growing numbers of cowboy operators who are not sorting out seatbelts which don't retract properly... These are coaches carrying school kids and yet safety is compromised with seatbelts which don't work.


I've given a few different situations here but in short, while I don't think that the cowboy antics of the past are still around as much, there is still a lot of operators who are ignoring laws or just blatantly operating unsafe buses in some way. Anyone who has any power to stop it, won't, so the operators keep doing it.
 

Statto

Established Member
Joined
8 Feb 2011
Messages
3,561
Location
At home or at the pub
A few years later (c.2008) and also in Blackburn there was a dubious operator who ran ex-Arriva Mercedes 709's still in Arriva livery with paper destination labels. I've forgotten their identity and it seems the internet has as well!
That reminds me of a company in the North West, (maybe its same operator), but the company would run for a short period, close down & go into liquidation, then register a new company under a new name but with the same owner/directors, they used second hand buses from Arriva, still in Arriva livery (with Arriva logo & legal name visable), which led Arriva to paint Black lines on vehicles they had withdrawn.
 
Last edited:

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
2,576
Location
Whittington
North Wales used to be a bit of a hotbed for Cowboy outfits, but things seem to have settled down a bit over the last few years.

Same with Birmingham, around 2010, it was awash with questionable operators, Diamond seem to have mopped up most of them over the years.
 

SSmith2009

Member
Joined
20 Dec 2021
Messages
337
Location
East Midlands
Meridian/Britannia Bus of Northampton are another shady operator, they've operated the 31 service in Northampton for years alongside a lot of other short lived routes.

Uses a mix of vehicles in different liveries and despite having their licence suspended last year they appealed and are still somehow operating.
 

Poiuytre

Member
Joined
26 Dec 2020
Messages
41
Location
Bristol
I think that's unfair, but it is close between being a cowboy and being stuck in a doom loop death spiral.

I'd say Hulleys were more the latter. If you're skint then non-essential maintenance does get put on the back burner and the consequence of that is that you get more breakdowns. More breakdowns means you can't run the service you're supposed to be running. And if you have fewer buses available then you try and work the remaining fleet much harder, so again service reliability goes out of the window.

And if you're skint you don't pay your staff so well and so the good ones leave. I don't think their buses were ever unroadworthy but some of the drivers were certainly 'characters' at the end.

For me the cowboys are the ones who seemingly never had any intention of doing things properly, e.g. Rhys Hand
Agreed. I'd put Western Greyhound and GHA Coaches into this bracket as well.

I'd suggest there's also a subcategory of 'cowboys' which is operators who appear relatively competent on the surface with well presented vehicles etc. But are operating fraudulently regarding finances and let maintenance and reliability slide when things get though. WebberBus, Express Motors and Padarn Bus could all be contenders
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
21,220
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
There are a good number of cowboy operators still out there, though they 'cowboy' antics are now quite different to previous times. I can go through most counties now though and find at least 1 standout cowboy operator who I would categorise as fitting into the cowboy category very nicely.


These days I'd argue there can be more things that you can get away with as enforcement feels like it has reduced.

One operator in Staffordshire regularly operates services not in line with the registration by operating early (more than the 1 minute early that the TC allows), on last trips of the day often terminates early then heads home rather than finishing the run, regularly provides buses which aren't in line with the council specification. Same operator can also be found running local bus services on a 30 minute round trip, with only 1 single timing point (to comply with the regulations that there should be a timing point every 15 minutes) so that if a traffic commissioner comes knocking, they can avoid being caught out for early running despite some buses in the morning arriving at the terminus 10 minutes early. The lack of timing points also means that drivers can (and do) go whatever way they want, some go through the estates, some don't. Because there is no timing point, passengers nor drivers know which way the bus is meant to go so is unlikely to raise it as an issue. Operator then refuses to comply properly with Bus Open Data regulations and provide full and correct data so then any passengers are unlikely to know when their bus is due either due to poor journey planning results.

That's an awful lot for 1 operator to be doing wrong. Yet multiple councils issue them with contracts.
Whenever contract breaches are raised with councils, the council sits back and says 'we will take it up with them' or 'nothing we can do', 'Live tracking is inconclusive even if the tracking shows the bus at 30 second intervals going back to the depot and not completing the trip' or the blinder that I love, 'it's deregulations fault' (yes, these are all genuine responses from local authorities when issues with tender compliance are raised), all because councils don't want to act upon the issues. Therefore bad operators get worse and worse because the Traffic Commissioner doesn't sort things which are within their remit. The councils don't want to/can't be bothered to act on the breaches despite having punishment clauses in the contract, they don't want to action these because when the route goes out to retender, they don't want to pay more. So they prefer a poor operator running a substandard service, rather than paying more for a good job well done. If there is no punishment, bad operators get worse. Sadly only Derbyshire Council has the backbone to pull contracts lately, and even then that was after a stupid amount of none compliance.


Another example that is becoming more and more prevalent over the past few years is cowboy operator upto dodgy things in terms of the vehicles. There are a good few cowboy operators who operate buses have no legal address lettering on the side of the bus, or deliberately trying to obscure it by using black letters on a very dark blue livery, not 'colour contrasting', or using letters which are certainly not 25milimetres tall as per COIF regulation 45 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1981/257/regulation/45/made). To be 25mm tall, that means that they would be bigger than a 20 pence piece, most of these would be covered by a 5p, let alone 20p.
On Rail Replacement, there seems to be a growing amount of people driving without a tachograph when the route would fall into scope. Having lots of drivers who aren't trained on the vehicles that they are driving and thus per DVSAs walkaround checklist, drivers can't possibly have completed the walkaround (Which states drivers should ensure is in good condition, and know how to work all accessibility equipment). Wheelchair lifts not working, drivers not trained on it's use, lack of wheelchair straps etc. One such event a month ago, 8 consecutive coaches were not fully PSVAR compliant despite claiming that they were and no PSVAR exemption certificates. This ranged from lack of training, to lifts not working, to no wheelchair straps etc. Growing numbers of cowboy operators who are not sorting out seatbelts which don't retract properly... These are coaches carrying school kids and yet safety is compromised with seatbelts which don't work.


I've given a few different situations here but in short, while I don't think that the cowboy antics of the past are still around as much, there is still a lot of operators who are ignoring laws or just blatantly operating unsafe buses in some way. Anyone who has any power to stop it, won't, so the operators keep doing it.
First of all, there are fewer resources for enforcement but then again, the number of operators is now much smaller, at least on local bus services. I can remember when there were dozens in NE England - very few now.

As such, many councils struggle to get operators to undertake work as it is, and have little resource and so ability to manage the contractors that they can get. Which is why councils are reluctant to pull contracts for what may be regarded as relatively minor contraventions (e.g. a 28 seater mini when the tender says it must be 33). Only when you have wholesale non-performance, or significant safety breaches will they intervene.

Similarly, the authorities will intervene if there are serious issues. That means that they won't be out with a ruler measuring the font size of legal lettering. Nor will they walk in and do spot checks on tachos or vehicles. And they never have - these are intelligence led. However, they will prioritise the serious or frequent issues. Therefore, if a driver truncates a service early on the last journey and no-one or one person raises a complaint, then it is unlikely to be pursued. If there is a major pattern of non performance, then they will investigate. This is no different to 20 years ago. Have a single vehicle fail an MOT is bad... have multiple vehicles fail will attract attention
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
15,061
Location
Isle of Man
Agreed. I'd put Western Greyhound and GHA Coaches into this bracket as well.
Definitely. Doing their best with what they had, the problem being that what they had was simply not sufficient to run what they were supposed to be running. WG never really recovered from the suspicious fire at Summercourt.

As for substantiating claims, the Traffic Commissioner did it for me with Mr Hand. “Telling the truth appears to be a lifestyle choice”. Ouch.
 

renegademaster

Established Member
Joined
22 Jun 2023
Messages
1,790
Location
Croydon
The small operator bread and butter in Surrey/Sussex seems to be council tendered services, with everything else run by Metrobus. The buses can either be quite old (often pre 2010 darts etc) or brand new depending on the route
 

Statto

Established Member
Joined
8 Feb 2011
Messages
3,561
Location
At home or at the pub
On Merseyside, Glenvale Transport (GTL), Arriva were forced to sell Gillmoss depot after buying MTL, however in the 4 years they existed GTL felt like a cowboy operator, they never bought any new buses, GTL had a quarter of the fleet impounded because they were so unroadworthy, so bought second hand Volvo B6s which were inadequate for the services they were allocated to, most of the fleet were ex London, Titans & MCWs which were over 20 years old by the time GTL was sold to Stagecoach.

GTL would have gone bankrupt had Stagecoach not bought them in 2005, although Go Ahead wanted to buy them, Stagecoach made a higher bid
 

JKP

Member
Joined
3 Jan 2023
Messages
428
Location
SE Scotland
First of all, there are fewer resources for enforcement but then again, the number of operators is now much smaller, at least on local bus services. I can remember when there were dozens in NE England - very few now.

As such, many councils struggle to get operators to undertake work as it is, and have little resource and so ability to manage the contractors that they can get. Which is why councils are reluctant to pull contracts for what may be regarded as relatively minor contraventions (e.g. a 28 seater mini when the tender says it must be 33). Only when you have wholesale non-performance, or significant safety breaches will they intervene.

Similarly, the authorities will intervene if there are serious issues. That means that they won't be out with a ruler measuring the font size of legal lettering. Nor will they walk in and do spot checks on tachos or vehicles. And they never have - these are intelligence led. However, they will prioritise the serious or frequent issues. Therefore, if a driver truncates a service early on the last journey and no-one or one person raises a complaint, then it is unlikely to be pursued. If there is a major pattern of non performance, then they will investigate. This is no different to 20 years ago. Have a single vehicle fail an MOT is bad... have multiple vehicles fail will attract attention
My local authority had a compliance officer who would check drivers licences and look over the vehicles used on school transport contract to check seating capacity, seat belts etc. Work was done in conjunction with the police and DfT. Not sure what the situation is now.
 

Krokodil

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2023
Messages
4,728
Location
Wales
North Wales used to be a bit of a hotbed for Cowboy outfits, but things seem to have settled down a bit over the last few years.
Other than the minor matter of an £88k fraud, I actually found Express Motors to offer a decent service. I certainly preferred them to Arriva.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
21,220
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Definitely. Doing their best with what they had, the problem being that what they had was simply not sufficient to run what they were supposed to be running. WG never really recovered from the suspicious fire at Summercourt.
Depends which Western Greyhound we're talking about. When it was Robin Orbell and Mark Howarth, it was an excellent firm though it was storing up problems with a fleet comprising mainly of Varios. By 2011, the cracks were showing but the two fires were devastating in many ways. However, it wasn't a cowboy firm.

Then it was sold to Adam Smith (aka Paul Jones) who had convictions for dishonesty involving passing fake banknotes (for which he was jailed), and had been involved with Buses Excetera. He and his sidekick (Michael Bishop) took on Black Velvet in Hampshire, and Western Greyhound. Now this was a cowboy outfit with a vehicle losing two wheels on the M3, vehicles not MOTed and insured, disc irregularities etc. Adam Smith was banned from holding an O license for 5 years but was then found to be running another firm with his mum as the "owner" and was since banned for 10 years as was his mum.
 

Observer

Member
Joined
3 Nov 2014
Messages
769
Maybe less so these days considering the expenses of everything but there are still operators who will look at tendered work, undercut others, put low bids in and end up providing a sub standard service that gets them into hot water.

Especially those who take on any work that's going even if that means a huge increase of their operating load rather than taking it slow and steady. Some companies look professional at the start and then their standards soon slip.
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
2,576
Location
Whittington
Other than the minor matter of an £88k fraud, I actually found Express Motors to offer a decent service. I certainly preferred them to Arriva.

Yes that's true, I only ever used them on the Snowdon Sherpa routes and they always seemed okay, the fraud was a bit of a surprise!
 

Top