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Crewe to London Terminals, reasonable routes??
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Mcr Warrior
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Don't think so. Euston, Marylebone, Paddington and Waterloo, are, I believe, all o.k., but not St. Pancras. Happy to be corrected. Perhaps one of our fares experts can confirm definitively.
MrJeeves
Established Member
Consulting the yellow pages, Crewe to London is valid on maps BV+GC, LC and RJ+RG.
BV+GC permits via Birmingham to London:
LC basically permits the same as BV+GC, but also lets your bypass Birmingham entirely and adds some additional other options in:
RJ+RG permits via the Chilterns to Reading and across to London:
If you combine them all together (and remove the sections which don't allow you to get from A-B without doublebacking), you get your map of validity with your season ticket. You should be able to travel on any of these red lines in any direction, (including breaking and resuming your journey at any location enroute) with your ticket (provided there are no easements that prevent one of these routes). No validity via Derby, unfortunately. There are other rules that come into play, but none of these would allow travel via your suggested route.
If, for whatever reason, you needed to travel from Northampton to Didcot, you could do so with just your season ticket. Same for Rugby to Stratford-upon-Avon, and any other potential journeys that can be traced on the map above.
Welcome to the forum!
I'd certainly not regard it as unreasonable - but unfortunately it isn't permitted.
In the days of British Rail, you could take 'any reasonable route'. However, this changed upon privatisation so that - on paper at least - you instead have what are called 'permitted routes', as set out by condition 13.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel. This says that (subject to any route or operator restrictions shown on your ticket) you can use any of the following:
The mapped routes in essence allow travel via routes that don't fulfil any of the above criteria but are still regarded as acceptable. For Crewe to London, the applicable maps and map combinations (you can look at them here) are BV+GC, LC and RJ+RG. These respectively allow routes into Marylebone via Birmingham and the Chiltern route, Euston via the West Coast Main Line, and Paddington via Reading.
St Pancras isn't permitted under any of the above rules and therefore travel via Derby isn't permitted - nor is travel into Waterloo or any of the other London stations.
Obviously these rules are somewhat complex so a simpler way of checking is to use a journey planner to see whether you are offered a through ticket via the route you want (you might need to specify 'via' points). If you are, and the route of that ticket is the same as the route of your season ticket (e.g. Any Permitted), then it's valid.
I'd certainly not regard it as unreasonable - but unfortunately it isn't permitted.
In the days of British Rail, you could take 'any reasonable route'. However, this changed upon privatisation so that - on paper at least - you instead have what are called 'permitted routes', as set out by condition 13.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel. This says that (subject to any route or operator restrictions shown on your ticket) you can use any of the following:
- Direct trains;
- The shortest route;
- Routes permitted under the Routeing Guide.
The mapped routes in essence allow travel via routes that don't fulfil any of the above criteria but are still regarded as acceptable. For Crewe to London, the applicable maps and map combinations (you can look at them here) are BV+GC, LC and RJ+RG. These respectively allow routes into Marylebone via Birmingham and the Chiltern route, Euston via the West Coast Main Line, and Paddington via Reading.
St Pancras isn't permitted under any of the above rules and therefore travel via Derby isn't permitted - nor is travel into Waterloo or any of the other London stations.
Obviously these rules are somewhat complex so a simpler way of checking is to use a journey planner to see whether you are offered a through ticket via the route you want (you might need to specify 'via' points). If you are, and the route of that ticket is the same as the route of your season ticket (e.g. Any Permitted), then it's valid.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Surely not Stratford on Avon, as any Crewe - London journey would require doublinmg back from Wilmcote
MrJeeves
Established Member
Double backing through stations within a routeing point group is permitted for interchange (e.g., changing trains).
Wilmcote is a member of this group, so you can double back between Wilmcote and Stratford to change trains at Stratford, hence why you will be issued an itinerary like below from Earlswood to Stratford, then back out to Bearley on one ticket:
Season ticket holders can break/restart their journey at any point and any direction within their ticket's validity, so I would argue you could travel to Stratford on a hypothetical journey changing trains there, and then break journey at the station.
kieron
Established Member
It isn't for a Crewe-London season ticket, but (and I don't know if this is an option for you) there are other season tickets for which it would be valid, and there is a way to replace your current season ticket with a different one.
For what it's worth, you could get a train to St Pancras with your season ticket, but not from Derby, or even from St Albans.