Cricklewood - Windermere

[miklcct]

I'm going to the Lake District for racing on 17 Sep and booked a hotel in Windermere on the night before. After racing I haven't decided if I will head straight home, or go to Nottingham to do another race.

As the race is not in Windermere itself, I will need to take 2 buses on 17 Sep to get to/from the race start/finish, which are 2 different buses running in the same direction. The start point of the race does not fall into the Windermere PlusBus area but the end point is inside the area.

I have tried searching for outward journeys on 16 Sep and return journeys on 17 Sep but both National Rail Enquiries and Trainsplit refuse to produce any fares.

My plan is to arrive Windermere before 20:00 on 16 Sep. For the return journey, the only possibility for me to return home on the same evening after the race is to take the 599 bus departing 18:33 at Waterhead back to Windermere for the Northern train departing 18:57 to Lancaster if I end up finishing the race just before the cut off.

Alternatively, if I decide to do the race at Nottingham on 18 Sep, I will most likely book a hostel bed at Manchester for the night. (Are there any other cities en-route where I can find cheaper accommodation than Manchester?)

Here are my questions:
1. If I buy a through walk up ticket from London Terminals to Windermere, can I go direct on the outward and return via Nottingham? What routing can I use when returning via Nottingham?
2. Are there any rovers / rangers suitable for my trip if I return via Nottingham?
3. Are there any advance purchase tickets available for my trip at all if I use alternative routings?

 

[Watershed]

I have tried searching for outward journeys on 16 Sep and return journeys on 17 Sep but both National Rail Enquiries and Trainsplit refuse to produce any fares.

The reason for this will be that Avanti's reduced timetable hasn't been published to journey planners for that date yet. It probably won't be for at least another week, possibly longer.

As they have (falsely) marked their trains as 'reservations compulsory' in the timetable data, and have closed reservations for those dates, you can't buy a ticket involving any travel on their services.

1. If I buy a through walk up ticket from London Terminals to Windermere, can I go direct on the outward and return via Nottingham? What routing can I use when returning via Nottingham?

Yes. A variety of different permitted routes exist via Nottingham. These include via Manchester and Sheffield, or via Lancaster, Skipton and Leeds, to Nottingham. Then either down the Midland Main Line to St Pancras, or via Peterborough into Kings Cross or Moorgate.

Unless you already have a ticket which covers you from Euston/St Pancras to Cricklewood, it's probably worth buying your through ticket from Cricklewood, as this only costs £3.40 extra (£2.35 with a Railcard).

2. Are there any rovers / rangers suitable for my trip if I return via Nottingham?

There are some options, such as the East Midlands, Heart of England or North West Rover, as well as an assortment of day rangers - but none that would likely present a saving given you would also have to pay to travel to/from the southernmost boundary of validity.

3. Are there any advance purchase tickets available for my trip at all if I use alternative routings?

I suspect there could be cheaper options, but I couldn't find anything from a brief search.

 

[miklcct]

I'm now checking travel options. Unfortunately the line south of Luton is closed on 18 September that, if I decide to do the race in Nottingham, I will take a coach back home.

I have identified cheap Advance tickets from Euston to Windermere involving travelling only on LNR / Northern services, but haven't found anything for the return yet, as the only way I can return home on 17 Sep departing on or after 18:57 from Windermere is to travel on an Avanti West Coast service.

If I want to go to the race in Nottingham, the plausible place for me to find accommodation is Manchester, Sheffield or Nottingham, but I haven't found a satisfactory place yet so I still want to compare the price if I try to get home on 17 Sep to decide if I want to do the race or not, and I don't want to book anything non-refundable before I know the price to get a train home direct on 17 Sep on that Avanti service.

 

[mangyiscute]

I would check out the lakes day ranger: http://www.railrover.org/pages/lakes-day-ranger.html as it provides train and bus travel around the lakes so could possibly work for you on the 17th

 

[Bletchleyite]

Accommodation may be cheaper in Preston than Manchester. It's less of a tourist destination.

 

[miklcct]

Accommodation may be cheaper in Preston than Manchester. It's less of a tourist destination.

The line from Preston to Manchester is closed and bustituted on 18 September so it won't work.

Also, I have bought tickets from London to Windermere already as the price for the fixed-time tickets there (Euston to Kidsgrove on WMT, Kidsgrove to Manchester on Northern, Manchester to Windermere on Northern) combined with a walk-up single back is less than a flexible return, and also an Advance for the 18:57 Windermere - Manchester train at £5.25 (26-30 Railcard) as it's very likely that I will take that train, and it forms one of the split tickets for anywhere further that evening, but I haven't made any arrangement after I reach Manchester yet.

 

[hkstudent]

Accommodation may be cheaper in Preston than Manchester. It's less of a tourist destination.

Possibly. But for OP's case to plan to race in Nottingham on the 18th, it may be better to stay closer to Nottingham like Sheffield, Crewe (a bit tricky), Stoke on Trent or even Nottingham itself.

It is permitted for travel from London to West Coast destinations via Midland Mainline (Chesterfield, Sheffield), so go via Nottingham should not be a problem with a flexible return ticket to Windermere.

 

[Hardcastle]

I'm going to the Lake District for racing on 17 Sep and booked a hotel in Windermere on the night before. After racing I haven't decided if I will head straight home, or go to Nottingham to do another race.

As the race is not in Windermere itself, I will need to take 2 buses on 17 Sep to get to/from the race start/finish, which are 2 different buses running in the same direction. The start point of the race does not fall into the Windermere PlusBus area but the end point is inside the area.

I have tried searching for outward journeys on 16 Sep and return journeys on 17 Sep but both National Rail Enquiries and Trainsplit refuse to produce any fares.

My plan is to arrive Windermere before 20:00 on 16 Sep. For the return journey, the only possibility for me to return home on the same evening after the race is to take the 599 bus departing 18:33 at Waterhead back to Windermere for the Northern train departing 18:57 to Lancaster if I end up finishing the race just before the cut off.

Alternatively, if I decide to do the race at Nottingham on 18 Sep, I will most likely book a hostel bed at Manchester for the night. (Are there any other cities en-route where I can find cheaper accommodation than Manchester?)

Here are my questions:
1. If I buy a through walk up ticket from London Terminals to Windermere, can I go direct on the outward and return via Nottingham? What routing can I use when returning via Nottingham?
2. Are there any rovers / rangers suitable for my trip if I return via Nottingham?
3. Are there any advance purchase tickets available for my trip at all if I use alternative routings?

Bear in mind 15th & 17th are strike days.

 

[miklcct]

Bear in mind 15th & 17th are strike days.

The Advance availability on 17th on Northern is still wide open though - so is it likely that the strike won't affect the routes I'll travel?

 

[Haywain]

The Advance availability on 17th on Northern is still wide open though - so is it likely that the strike won't affect the routes I'll travel?

No, it isn’t likely that your routes will be unaffected.

 

[miklcct]

No, it isn’t likely that your routes will be unaffected.

Northern website only shows that 15 September (but not 17 September) is a strike day, and its FAQ mentions that Advance tickets are no longer on sale on strike days.

 

[JonathanH]

Northern website only shows that 15 September (but not 17 September) is a strike day, and its FAQ mentions that Advance tickets are no longer on sale on strike days.

That is because they have only updated their website for the ASLEF announcement yesterday and not the RMT one today.

 

[Haywain]

Northern website only shows that 15 September (but not 17 September) is a strike day, and its FAQ mentions that Advance tickets are no longer on sale on strike days.

It’s only been announced this afternoon!

 

[miklcct]

It’s only been announced this afternoon!

Oh hell.

What will happen to my journey by then, and if the train isn't available which bus I should get from Windermere / Lancaster back to Manchester in the evening?

I can rely on the 555 to get me back to Lancaster, then the 40 arriving Preston at 22:07, and afterwards what bus can I continue southwards until I get to at least Manchester? Google always tell me to take the train even if I set the preference to prefer buses.

I would like to know my options to get as far as possible if the train network shuts down on that day.

If I have no choice but to stay at Preston at night, it is still possible for me to get to Nottingham on 18 Sep for the race by taking the 06:00 replacement bus to Manchester Airport then train afterwards, but it will cost me a fortune as no advance purchase tickets are available for the journey and I hope to avoid rail replacement buses if possible, compared to the £4.60 (Railcard) Advance fares available later on the day, so I hope to go as far as possible in the evening on 17 Sep.

 

[JonathanH]

I would like to know my options to get as far as possible if the train network shuts down on that day.

All a bit awkward.

Preston and Manchester aren't linked by coach in the way they used to be.

National Express will sell you a ticket for a coach from Preston to Birmingham plus connection to Nottingham leaving at 0315 and arriving at 0950.

There are a number of night coaches from West Yorkshire to Nottingham but I don't think you are going to be able to get across to Leeds.

What time is the race in Nottingham? What time does Windermere finish?

 

[Haywain]

Oh hell.

What will happen to my journey by then, and if the train isn't available which bus I should get from Windermere / Lancaster back to Manchester in the evening?

I can rely on the 555 to get me back to Lancaster, then the 40 arriving Preston at 22:07, and afterwards what bus can I continue southwards until I get to at least Manchester? Google always tell me to take the train even if I set the preference to prefer buses.

I would like to know my options to get as far as possible if the train network shuts down on that day.

If I have no choice but to stay at Preston at night, it is still possible for me to get to Nottingham on 18 Sep for the race by taking the 06:00 replacement bus to Manchester Airport then train afterwards, but it will cost me a fortune as no advance purchase tickets are available for the journey and I hope to avoid rail replacement buses if possible, compared to the £4.60 (Railcard) Advance fares available later on the day, so I hope to go as far as possible in the evening on 17 Sep.

Seriously, accept that it’s not likely to be possible and change your plans.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seriously, accept that it’s not likely to be possible and change your plans.

If I were you I would bin off the Nottingham race, stay another day in the Lakes and enjoy it, it is a lovely place.

 

[miklcct]

Possibly. But for OP's case to plan to race in Nottingham on the 18th, it may be better to stay closer to Nottingham like Sheffield, Crewe (a bit tricky), Stoke on Trent or even Nottingham itself.

It is permitted for travel from London to West Coast destinations via Midland Mainline (Chesterfield, Sheffield), so go via Nottingham should not be a problem with a flexible return ticket to Windermere.

I've booked a refundable hotel room at Preston just for contingency - as it is cheaper than anything available further down the line.

Is there any "departure board" available for me to see online for a coach station that I can check what coaches are available in the correct direction I want to travel? Specifically I want to see if there is anything going south after 22:30.

All a bit awkward.

Preston and Manchester aren't linked by coach in the way they used to be.

National Express will sell you a ticket for a coach from Preston to Birmingham plus connection to Nottingham leaving at 0315 and arriving at 0950.

There are a number of night coaches from West Yorkshire to Nottingham but I don't think you are going to be able to get across to Leeds.

What time is the race in Nottingham?

The start time is between 10:30 and 12:30 at The Meadows, which I can choose my start slot to be as late as possible.

My decision to do the race or not is mainly if I can save a night of accommodation by heading straight back home on the evening of 17 September, i.e. if it is possible for me to head home directly after the race in the Lake District, as I have already identified a cheap coach (which I haven't booked anything non-refundable in my return journey yet) to get me home from Nottingham.

It's hard to decide if I should book the Nottingham - Finchley Road coach before the cheap fare is gone, as if I can find a way with reasonable cost to get back home all the way from Windermere on 17 Sep evening I will refund the Preston accommodation and get home.

 

[hkstudent]

If I were you I would bin off the Nottingham race, stay another day in the Lakes and enjoy it, it is a lovely place.

Seconded. And also, lakes are wonderful for riding as well, and have loads of good climbs available for challenge.

 

[miklcct]

What time is the race in Nottingham? What time does Windermere finish?

The latest finishing time (cut-off time) is scheduled to be at 18:00 at Waterhead if the race is on time. Therefore my original plan before the strike was announced, mentioned in #1 is to take the 18:33 599 bus then the 18:57 train, which I have already got an Advance ticket for it.

I haven't bought any train ticket further south yet as the Avanti trains are not open for booking yet.

If I were you I would bin off the Nottingham race, stay another day in the Lakes and enjoy it, it is a lovely place.

I honestly don't have any interest in the place and I absolutely don't want to stay there any longer than necessary for doing the race.

At least I have now worked out a way I can feasibly get to Nottingham and do the race, i.e. to stay in Preston for the night and to take the 06:00 replacement bus to Manchester Airport then trains to Nottingham. (It is less desirable than staying in Manchester or further for the night but cost-wise still acceptable to me) However, I haven't worked out, when no trains are available, if I can actually get home direct on 17 Sep without going to Nottingham to do the race.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I honestly don't have any interest in the place and I absolutely don't want to stay there any longer than necessary for doing the race.

Have you ever been there before? You are literally the first person in my entire life who does not see the Lakes as a nice place to spend time, it truly is lovely, one of the most beautiful places the UK has to offer.

At least I have now worked out a way I can feasibly get to Nottingham and do the race, i.e. to stay in Preston for the night and to take the 06:00 replacement bus to Manchester Airport then trains to Nottingham. (It is less desirable than staying in Manchester or further for the night but cost-wise still acceptable to me) However, I haven't worked out, when no trains are available, if I can actually get home direct on 17 Sep without going to Nottingham to do the race.

I wouldn't bet that the early morning trains on the day after will run, you'll need to keep an eye on that over the next couple of weeks.

 

[Haywain]

I wouldn't bet that the early morning trains on the day after will run, you'll need to keep an eye on that over the next couple of weeks.

I suppose looking at what ran on August 21st might give some indication.

 

[mangyiscute]

The Lake District is one of the most beautiful places in the whole of the UK, the 555 is perhaps the best bus journey in the UK (non-bus fans love it too) and the walking round there is incredible. Unless you hate the outdoors (which is highly unlikely since you are doing these runs) you will love the Lakes and be way happier spending time there rather than taking late night/early morning buses to make it to the Nottingham race

 

[JonathanH]

Is there any "departure board" available for me to see online for a coach station that I can check what coaches are available in the correct direction I want to travel? Specifically I want to see if there is anything going south after 22:30.

There isn't a departure board for coaches - you can click on the stop on Google Maps (eg at Preston Bus Station) to give you an idea though and use bustimes.org

The only coach out of Preston after 2230 is the 0315 National Express coach (0240 from Lancaster) through to Manchester and Birmingham.

As I have already noted, a connection to Nottingham via Birmingham is possible on this coach
Lancaster 0240 to Birmingham 0625 (181)
Birmingham 0745 to Nottingham 0950 (183)

A connection via Manchester / Leeds / Sheffield is also possible
Lancaster 0240 to Manchester 0400 (181)
Manchester 0440 to Leeds 0545 (170)
Leeds 0620 to Sheffield 0710 (131)

Then train, assuming they are running by then.
Sheffield (0823) to Derby (0853)
Derby (0914) to Nottingham (0940)

If this doesn't run, I would expect the 0905 Sheffield to Nottingham 1000 to run on 18 September, as it starts at Sheffield.

However, I haven't worked out, when no trains are available, if I can actually get home direct on 17 Sep without going to Nottingham to do the race.

Almost certainly not, other than taking the 181 coach noted above, as the railway service will shut down before your race ends.

A bit of a shame your race in Windermere doesn't finish a little earlier as then this bus (1730 from Windermere to Chorley) would be available

X8 - Chorley - Preston - Lancaster - Windermere - Keswick

Stagecoach Merseyside and South Lancashire

bustimes.org

https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/Timetables/Merseyside/Latest - New Brand 9.20/X8 Timetable 2022 - updated.pdf

The bus south of Preston at 2207 is the 125 at 2220 to Horwich. I think that is where you get no further.
https://bustimes.org/services/125-preston-bolton-3?date=2022-09-17

 

[miklcct]

I wouldn't bet that the early morning trains on the day after will run, you'll need to keep an eye on that over the next couple of weeks.

When will the strike timetable come out? I need assurance that I can get to Nottingham for the race before I book the FlixBus from Nottingham back home. If I don't really have a way to get to Nottingham I'd rather to take overnight coaches back home and cancel the accommodation. The cancellation deadline of my Preston accommodation is 13 September.

The race itself is not a problem though as entry is available until 11:00 on the race day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When will the strike timetable come out? I need assurance that I can get to Nottingham for the race before I book the FlixBus from Nottingham back home. If I don't really have a way to get to Nottingham I'd rather to take overnight coaches back home and cancel the accommodation. The cancellation deadline of my Preston accommodation is 13 September.

The race itself is not a problem though as entry is available until 11:00 on the race day.

Goodness knows, very often only close to the time (a few days before) but could be sooner. I don't think you're going to be in a position to book a cheap coach in advance.

If you'd rather take a bitty overnight coach journey than spend a day in one of the most beautiful parts of the UK you're certainly unusual!

 

[miklcct]

Goodness knows, very often only close to the time (a few days before) but could be sooner. I don't think you're going to be in a position to book a cheap coach in advance.

If you'd rather take a bitty overnight coach journey than spend a day in one of the most beautiful parts of the UK you're certainly unusual!

Unless you hate the outdoors (which is highly unlikely since you are doing these runs) you will love the Lakes and be way happier spending time there rather than taking late night/early morning buses to make it to the Nottingham race

I do all these runs (orienteering) in towns and cities. I'm interested in cities, the more metropolitan the more interesting to me.

I didn't even go to the Lakes 5 days (5 days of orienteering races) when my friends went as I had no interest at all.

So no matter what happens, barring extreme weather events (which would cancel the races), there are only 2 choices for me on the evening of 17 September:

• get home as soon as possible with reasonable cost (assume that I get to Preston for the hotel, the maximum possible I'll pay is the hotel cost and a railcard-discounted off peak single back home afterwards when the Sunday train resumes operating)
• go to Nottingham before 12:00 the next day to race, then take a coach home afterwards

I'd like to compare options, which are:

• Stay in hotel and get home on Avanti v.s. stay in hotel and get the first train journey to Nottingham (preferable)
• Take overnight coaches back to Birmingham then Finchley Road vs take overnight coaches back to Birmingham then Nottingham. (undesirable)

So should I just wait until the train journeys mentioned in the first bullet point open for booking before booking anything else? Will they open the booking before 13 September (the hotel cancellation deadline)?

 

[SeanG]

Do you drive? The best option here may well be to do so (or hire a car?). Note that the travelling would be tiring an could impact on your performance (although I am sure I do not need to teach a granny to suck eggs!) I would not advocate travelling during a strike day, especially not on the railways!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do all these runs (orienteering) in towns and cities. I'm interested in cities, the more metropolitan the more interesting to me.

If that's the case (though I find it flummoxing that anyone wouldn't enjoy some time spent in the Lakes), given that the Lakes contains no cities, only small towns, perhaps the best choice would be to sack off that race and just go to Nottingham, going both ways by coach.

(I'm intrigued what the race is, there's nothing on British Orienteering's website for that day!)

 

[miklcct]

perhaps the best choice would be to sack off that race and just go to Nottingham

There is no way I will sack off that race in Windermere - one of my bucket list item in the UK.

(I'm intrigued what the race is, there's nothing on British Orienteering's website for that day!)

That's the BLDSA Windermere race.

I think I have to make up my mind now, to book overnight coaches from Preston to Nottingham and cancel my accommodation. Maybe I will go to fast food / a pub for my dinner after getting to Preston at 22:07 as I won't have my dinner yet after completing the race at Windermere. All the coaches added from Preston to Nottingham to Finchley Road will be cheaper than a night of accommodation at Preston.

Do you drive? The best option here may well be to do so (or hire a car?). Note that the travelling would be tiring an could impact on your performance (although I am sure I do not need to teach a granny to suck eggs!) I would not advocate travelling during a strike day, especially not on the railways!

It will well cost me 3 digits to hire a car from Manchester for 1.5 days given the substantial mileage fee involved to get to Windermere and back, so I will consider it only if there are 3 people sharing the car.