Cross-City line 1982 - lack of Redditch services off peak

[nw1]

Continuing my look at the 1982 BR timetable on Timetable World (https://timetableworld.com/ttw-viewer.php?token=132730db-8ad2-4152-9459-9d410b64c1ea) and one surprising feature is the closure of Redditch station to services outside of peak hours (see table 55).

Was this a permanent timetable or some sort of temporary engineering works amendment? There are literally only a couple of morning and evening peak services plus one Saturday midday service. Everything else terminates at Longbridge.

I'm sure by around 1984 there was an hourly service, as it was around then I first noticed the Cross City timetable. Wikipedia (admittedly may be wrong) suggests an hourly service from 1980.

Extraordinary to have such a poor service if so, I've only visited Redditch about once, but much of the housing looks like it was built before 1982. Certainly swings and roundabouts with the 1982 timetable; XC was of course much more operationally interesting (and probably not much less frequent!) compared to now, and peak increases were much healthier - but some places were decidedly poorly served.

By contrast, the frequency out to Longbridge at the height of the peak was better, AFAIK, than anything achieved in recent times, at every 7 to 8 minutes between 1705 and 1748.

 

[jfollows]

In my 1 June 1981 to 16 May 1982 working timetable (CL) it's interesting because there's 2G26 08:12 Redditch-Lichfield City, then 2G36 09N23 Redditch-Four Oaks with hourly service until 2G18 16N24 Redditch-Lichfield City, 5H89 17:35 ECS Redditch-Tyseley, then 5G36 18:05 Redditch-Longbridge, then 2G14 18:41 Redditch-Four Oaks. The "N" services 09N23 to 16N24 are all "not advertised" as far as Longbridge, whence they take up advertised services. Similar in the down direction.

So there was an hourly service, but it wasn't in the public timetable.

There will have been a reason I'm sure .......

In 1986 there was an hourly departure from Redditch xx.22 but now advertised as you recall from about 1984. That's the next WTT I have for the route. Also what were ECS departures at 17:35 and 18:05 from Redditch are now passenger workings to Lichfield City.

See example 2G18 10N24 Redditch-Four Oaks attached:

 

[nw1]

In my 1 June 1981 to 16 May 1982 working timetable (CL) it's interesting because there's 2G26 08:12 Redditch-Lichfield City, then 2G36 09N23 Redditch-Four Oaks with hourly service until 2G18 16N24 Redditch-Lichfield City, 5H89 17:35 ECS Redditch-Tyseley, then 5G36 18:05 Redditch-Longbridge, then 2G14 18:41 Redditch-Four Oaks. The "N" services 09N23 to 16N24 are all "not advertised" as far as Longbridge, whence they take up advertised services. Similar in the down direction.

So there was an hourly service, but it wasn't in the public timetable.

There will have been a reason I'm sure .......

In 1986 there was an hourly departure from Redditch xx.22 but now advertised as you recall from about 1984. That's the next WTT I have for the route. Also what were ECS departures at 17:35 and 18:05 from Redditch are now passenger workings to Lichfield City.

See example 2G18 10N24 Redditch-Four Oaks attached:

Ah right - thanks. Guessing 1982/3 would have been similar to 1981/2.
Was it maybe operated by BR under contract to the West Midlands PTE, in a way to make it "different" to regular public services, or something like that? Almost like the way Okehampton was operated before last November?

 

[jfollows]

Ah right - thanks. Guessing 1982/3 would have been similar to 1981/2.

Looks similar; no 13:40 SO from Redditch in 1981/2 though.

 

[30907]

A bit of context: the service barely survived into the 70s - I recall that around 1971 there were two morning trains into Birmingham and two evening ones back, these presumably balancing as ECS; there was also a Saturday lunchtime return trip, which I used to "do" the branch (along with Snow Hill the same day, before it closed!). And those were virtually the only local services out to Barnt Green - things have changed slightly!

 

[nw1]

A bit of context: the service barely survived into the 70s - I recall that around 1971 there were two morning trains into Birmingham and two evening ones back, these presumably balancing as ECS; there was also a Saturday lunchtime return trip, which I used to "do" the branch (along with Snow Hill the same day, before it closed!). And those were virtually the only local services out to Barnt Green - things have changed slightly!

That sounds very like what I am seeing in the 1982 timetable, though as @jfollows says it looks like there was a "hidden" hourly off-peak too. I take it Redditch expanded greatly during the 70s.

 

[jfollows]

Going back to my 1977 CL WTT, it's as 30907 describes, 2G71 07:58, 2G71 08:15 SX, 2G71 13:40 SO and 2G71 18:35 up to New Street, 2G71 06:47 SX and some SO/07:05 SO dated, 2G71 12:55 SO, then 17:18 SX & 17:45 commuter services from New Street. The services ran on Saturdays also, so the extra mid-day round trip meant that the branch had more services on Saturdays than Mon-Fri.

[EDIT PS No ECS workings, so possibly the 06:47 New Street-Redditch was two units, split at Redditch to work 07:58 & 08:15 back. Likewise the 18:35 Redditch-New Street could have been two units made from the combination of arrivals from the 17:18 and 17:45 services from New Street. Saturdays was a single unit out and back.]


Plus 6M31 02:45 Bristol Parkway to Redditch which went via Camp Hill and New Street (pass 05/46) to avoid having to run round. Empties from 6M31 returned at 19:30 from Redditch as 6V45, running round at Kings Norton this time 19RR58-20RR17. Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redditch_railway_station) says that the goods yard which this service presumably served is now the car park, housing and a hotel.

 

[Magdalia]

The Cross City service as it is known today did not exist until May 1978. Prior to May 1978 Lichfield trains mostly ran through to/from Kidderminster and were hourly, with a New Street-Four Oaks shuttle between. The Redditch service was peak hours only and these were the only trains at Selly Oak and Bourneville. Kings Norton and Northfield also got a few extra stops on "main line" services.

The Cross City service was a West Midlands PTE initiative using cast off DMUs but with investment in new stations at Five Ways, University and Longbridge. The core service between Four Oaks and Longbridge was entirely within the West Midlands PTE area. The hourly Lichfield and peak time Redditch trains became extensions of Four Oaks-Longbridge services to avoid duplication.

Redditch got an hourly service in the May 1983 timetable but it ceased at the end of the evening peak. This might have started part way through the 1982/83 timetable but I do not have the relevant supplement.

 

[jfollows]

The Cross City service as it is known today did not exist until May 1978. Prior to May 1978 Lichfield trains mostly ran through to/from Kidderminster and were hourly, with a New Street-Four Oaks shuttle between. The Redditch service was peak hours only and these were the only trains at Selly Oak and Bourneville. Kings Norton and Northfield also got a few extra stops on "main line" services.

I'd forgotten how sparse the service was; in my 1977 WTT the only down service other than the Redditch ones to serve intermediate stations was the 17:35 Birmingham-Hereford which called at Selly Oak, Bournville, Northfield & Barnt Green. In the up direction 1E10 06:55 Gloucester-Leeds D350 called at Barnt Green, Northfield, King's Norton & Bournville.

 

[Sprinter107]

Hereford and Worcester County Council sponsored an hourly off peak service to Redditch from May 1980, but it was only advertised locally. I think this sponsorship was renewed every 6 months. There was a single evening service from New Street at 22.48. I think there may have been some arrangement with Midland Red about interchangeable tickets about that time too. This service became permanent in May 1983.
In September 1986, a fifth off peak train per hour ran on the Cross City line, and involved the hourly Redditch service. It was marketed as Cross City Express, and started from Four Oaks, calling at all stations to New Street, then express to Kings Norton, then all stations from there to Redditch. An hourly evening service started about the same time. (On the north side, the Cross City Express started at Lichfield City, called all stations to Sutton Coldfield, the fast to New Street, then all stations to Longbridge). They only lasted about 3 years and were withdrawn. From May 1989, the service to Redditch was doubled to a train every 30 minutes.

 

[jfollows]

Hereford and Worcester County Council sponsored an hourly off peak service to Redditch from May 1980, but it was only advertised locally. I think this sponsorship was renewed every 6 months. There was a single evening service from New Street at 22.48. I think there may have been some arrangement with Midland Red about interchangeable tickets about that time too. This service became permanent in May 1983.

I'd missed that one; in my 81-82 timetable the 22:48 from New Street is the 22:18 from Four Oaks and is not advertised beyond Longbridge. It then runs ECS to Tyseley. So these Hereford & Worcester-sponsored services didn't appear in the public timetable such as the rail all-line timetable, perhaps - as you say - in case the sponsorship was not renewed.

 

[Sprinter107]

I'm sure the timetables may have been leaflets, i was a kid at the time, but remember going from University to Redditch on it. I dont think those trains were in the usual pocket timetables at that point. The Cross City timetable was red and white, but there was a brown and white timetable for the Redditch and Bromsgrove services, and those trains were not in there. Hereford and Worcester also sponsored some trains to Bromsgrove too, but not an hourly service like for Redditch, one such train being a 14.48 from New Street to Bromsgrove.

 

[nw1]

Interesting replies, thanks.

What's striking is that it wasn't until 1980 until Redditch had a regular service (albeit an unadvertised one for three more years) - even though much of the housing predates 1980.

I remember first looking at road atlases (the AA book specifically) in 1979, probably triggered by us moving from Cheshire to the south and interest in the journey, and noting Redditch was marked in upper-case font, suggesting a reasonably large place.

In the same area Bromsgrove is well known as a place that had a poor service even later.

 

[Ken H]

Interesting replies, thanks.

What's striking is that it wasn't until 1980 until Redditch had a regular service (albeit an unadvertised one for three more years) - even though much of the housing predates 1980.

I remember first looking at road atlases (the AA book specifically) in 1979, probably triggered by us moving from Cheshire to the south and interest in the journey, and noting Redditch was marked in upper-case font, suggesting a reasonably large place.

In the same area Bromsgrove is well known as a place that had a poor service even later.

Redditch is a new town. The settlement was quite small in 1945. But the station had long platforms and there was a big goods yard, now the car park.

 

[MichaelAMW]

These rough and ready scans from the GBTT of 1977 and 1978 show the change that occurred between those years.

 

[Gloster]

Redditch station was moved in both 1868 and 1972, and also rebuilt for the electrification in 1992. It has entries on both the Disused Stations and Warwickshire Railways sites; the latter is not as informative as the site normally is.

 

[jfollows]

These rough and ready scans from the GBTT of 1977 and 1978 show the change that occurred between those years.

Thank you for this; I also came across the summer 1979 timetable at http://miac.org.uk/redditchline.html

 

[The Conductor]

The pre-1981 service was a legacy of Beeching.In 1965 the whole local service south of Birmingham and the Redditch branch were propsoed for closure. The Minister refused permission (some journeys, e.g. Redditch to Selly Oak, would have been very difficult by bus, and buses weree badly affected by staff shortages). BR's response was a 'grudge' service with a basic peak hour operation only, including a single out and back SO lunchtime trip, a legacy from the days of a 5 1/2 day working week that was already obsolete in 1965. That was a single calss 121 car when I travelled on it in 1973. WMPTE's espousal of the Cross City scheme from 1979 was the first stage of a big change, and HWCC then followed up with improvements bit by bit.

 

[nw1]

These rough and ready scans from the GBTT of 1977 and 1978 show the change that occurred between those years.

Interesting, thanks for that. So was the Table 55 of 1977 literally the only service at the intermediate stations?

By contrast the 1978 timetable looks similar to that of today out to Longbridge but very little beyond.

The pre-1981 service was a legacy of Beeching.In 1965 the whole local service south of Birmingham and the Redditch branch were propsoed for closure. The Minister refused permission (some journeys, e.g. Redditch to Selly Oak, would have been very difficult by bus, and buses weree badly affected by staff shortages). BR's response was a 'grudge' service with a basic peak hour operation only, including a single out and back SO lunchtime trip, a legacy from the days of a 5 1/2 day working week that was already obsolete in 1965. That was a single calss 121 car when I travelled on it in 1973. WMPTE's espousal of the Cross City scheme from 1979 was the first stage of a big change, and HWCC then followed up with improvements bit by bit.

What's interesting is that according to Wikipedia, Redditch was marked for "new town" status in 1964, so it seems strange the line should be scheduled for closure. Some of Beeching's decisions were, to me (and admittedly I wasn't around then) rather baffling, and given the town was presumably pretty big throughout the 1970s it's surprising it didn't get a usable service until 1980, and an advertised service until 1983! But the delay until 1978 before providing a decent service on the Cross-City line is even more surprising; one might think the intermediate stations could have supported a half-hourly service, at least, before that. Did BR believe a regular all-stations service out to Redditch in the early or mid 70s could not pay its way, despite it being a highly populated area?

 

[jfollows]

Interesting, thanks for that. So was the Table 55 of 1977 literally the only service at the intermediate stations?

Yes, absolutely!
Up morning rush hour service attached from the working timetable just for contrast.

 

[RT4038]

Interesting, thanks for that. So was the Table 55 of 1977 literally the only service at the intermediate stations?

By contrast the 1978 timetable looks similar to that of today out to Longbridge but very little beyond.

What's interesting is that according to Wikipedia, Redditch started expanding in 1964, so it seems strange the line should be scheduled for closure. Some of Beeching's decisions appeared to have very little logic indeed, and given the town was presumably pretty big throughout the 1970s it's surprising it didn't get a usable service until 1980. But the delay until 1978 before providing a decent service on the Cross-City line is even more surprising; one might think the intermediate stations could have supported a half-hourly service, at least, before that. Did BR believe a regular all-stations service out to Redditch in the early or mid 70s could not pay its way, despite it being a highly populated area?

Presumably Beeching and BR were looking at whether such a service would 'pay its way' and concluded that it wouldn't, much like the current service to Redditch doesn't 'pay its way'

Beeching wrote in his report about the financial problem of city suburban/commuter services. His remit was to make the railways as a whole 'pay its way' and he recognised that these type of services never would but were likely needed to perform a passenger transport function. He suggested that these needed funding separately, rather than expecting 'the railway' to cross-subsidise from Inter City and Freight traffic. Govt. took quite some time to put this into practice (basically setting up the PTEs in the 1968 Act), and even then it took the PTEs some time to grapple with the financial implications. In the delay, some lines got closed completely and others (such as Redditch) ended up on life support minimal services. Perhaps the Govt at the time were hoping they would get away with the closures - after all this was the time of thinking that cars would take over passenger transport, with buses for the losers.

 

[Magdalia]

What's interesting is that according to Wikipedia, Redditch was marked for "new town" status in 1964, so it seems strange the line should be scheduled for closure. Some of Beeching's decisions were, to me (and admittedly I wasn't around then) rather baffling

That's nothing compared to what happened at Haverhill, which was a designated "London Overspill" town. The railway was closed in 1967 and it is now one of the largest towns in England not connected to the railway.

 

[Ken H]

Presumably Beeching and BR were looking at whether such a service would 'pay its way' and concluded that it wouldn't, much like the current service to Redditch doesn't 'pay its way'

Beeching wrote in his report about the financial problem of city suburban/commuter services. His remit was to make the railways as a whole 'pay its way' and he recognised that these type of services never would but were likely needed to perform a passenger transport function. He suggested that these needed funding separately, rather than expecting 'the railway' to cross-subsidise from Inter City and Freight traffic. Govt. took quite some time to put this into practice (basically setting up the PTEs in the 1968 Act), and even then it took the PTEs some time to grapple with the financial implications. In the delay, some lines got closed completely and others (such as Redditch) ended up on life support minimal services. Perhaps the Govt at the time were hoping they would get away with the closures - after all this was the time of thinking that cars would take over passenger transport, with buses for the losers.

The cross city line was a case study on why councils should not get involved in rail. It should be a central government function. The cross border problems at both ends were a real issue for both the PTE and Worcester and Staffs county councils. Rail is too big for most councils. Even cross border buses can be a problem.

 

[nw1]

Presumably Beeching and BR were looking at whether such a service would 'pay its way' and concluded that it wouldn't, much like the current service to Redditch doesn't 'pay its way'

Beeching wrote in his report about the financial problem of city suburban/commuter services. His remit was to make the railways as a whole 'pay its way' and he recognised that these type of services never would but were likely needed to perform a passenger transport function.

I am genuinely surprised by that, I'd have expected commuter/suburban services like this to easily pay their way as they can be operated quite simply on a clockface pattern with most units (except a few peak extras) out all day, and would attract significant shopping/football etc traffic at off-peak times.

That's nothing compared to what happened at Haverhill, which was a designated "London Overspill" town. The railway was closed in 1967 sand it is now one of the largest towns in England not connected to the railway.

Yes I have heard of Haverhill being quite a large settlement. Never been there but I have pictures of a large amount of 1960s and 1970s housing out in the middle of open and relatively empty countryside, with no other settlements for miles around - not sure how accurate a picture that is! Isn't it similar-ish to Braintree (another place I have never visited, but one which by contrast has had an electrified railway for more than 40 years now)?

 

[Magdalia]

Yes I have heard of Haverhill being quite a large settlement. Never been there

Neither have I, even though it is only a short distance away for me.

 

[gg1]

Presumably Beeching and BR were looking at whether such a service would 'pay its way' and concluded that it wouldn't, much like the current service to Redditch doesn't 'pay its way'

Really?

Even with 1 million passengers per year, plus another 300k at Alvechurch.

 

[Magdalia]

I am genuinely surprised by that, I'd have expected commuter/suburban services like this to easily pay their way as they can be operated quite simply on a clockface pattern with most units (except a few peak extras) out all day, and would attract significant shopping/football etc traffic at off-peak times.

Suburban services were not like that in Beeching's time. The peaks were very concentrated and a lot of resources only made two journeys per weekday, one in the morning and one in the evening. That applied to traincrew not just trains. As a result very few commuter/suburban services paid their way.

 

[30907]

That's nothing compared to what happened at Haverhill, which was a designated "London Overspill" town. The railway was closed in 1967 and it is now one of the largest towns in England not connected to the railway.

I don't think the London Overspill towns, and even more the New Towns, were ever intended primarily as commuter dormitories; the thought being that they would be relatively self-contained. Even Milton Keynes took years to get a Central station.

 

[Magdalia]

I don't think the London Overspill towns, and even more the New Towns, were ever intended primarily as commuter dormitories; the thought being that they would be relatively self-contained.

You're right, but contrast Haverhill with St Neots and Huntingdon, both of which successfully transitioned from overspill to commuter dormitories, while Haverhill was isolated. And the people who moved out to the overspill towns still had links to London that were more difficult to sustain without the railway.

 

[nw1]

I don't think the London Overspill towns, and even more the New Towns, were ever intended primarily as commuter dormitories; the thought being that they would be relatively self-contained. Even Milton Keynes took years to get a Central station.

Difficult to get my head round that thought (though I'm not denying that was the thought at the time); from somewhere like Redditch, Birmingham seems a very obvious work and leisure destination.

I only learnt recently, on this forum, that MKC only opened in 1982! (I'd have guessed perhaps 1975, around the time of complete WCML electrification). It so happens that 1982/83 was my 'first' timetable so MKC has 'always been there' in my experience of the railway.