Cross Country Anytime tickets available on board?

[gpb_croppers63]

Hi All,

Sorry if this question has been asked before. I have tried searching the forums and the internet but haven't come across anything definitive.

I'm travelling from Edinburgh to Glasgow in a few weeks time. There is a perfectly-timed Cross Country service from Edinburgh to Glasgow Central (where my hotel is, thus negating the need to walk from Queen Street) that has XC-only Anytime fares available for much less than the ScotRail fare. As I will be landing in to Edinburgh airport around 1 1/2 hours before the departure of the train, I'm not 100% certain I will actually make it so I don't want to buy it in advance as I can't excess it up to the ScotRail fare as far as I'm aware.

My question is this: as it's an Anytime fare, can I buy it on board the Cross Country train if I'm struggling for time? I know discounted fares aren't available to buy on board but an Anytime fare isn't a discounted fare in theory (although it is much cheaper than the ScotRail fare).

Thanks in advance!

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes you can buy on board as your not seeking to use a Railcard or other discount and XC don't operate a PF system.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes you can buy on board. However most Scotrail services are faster than XC ones, taking around 45 minutes at the fastest. As you say though, Scotrail will want more money for that!

 

[Ferret]

Yes you can buy on board as your not seeking to use a Railcard or other discount and XC don't operate a PF system.

Thankfully! And yes, any XC only ticket can be bought on board the train as the ticket types are all SDS/SDR/SOR etc.

 

[gpb_croppers63]

Yes you can buy on board as your not seeking to use a Railcard or other discount and XC don't operate a PF system.

Thanks for the info. That's what I thought but just wanted to make sure.

Yes you can buy on board. However most Scotrail services are faster than XC ones, taking around 45 minutes at the fastest. As you say though, Scotrail will want more money for that!

Not only that but the ScotRail services arrive into Queen Street whereas Cross Country will take me directly to Central. My hotel is right by Glasgow Central so the Cross Country train is easier as well as cheaper!

Thanks for all the info guys.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thankfully! And yes, any XC only ticket can be bought on board the train as the ticket types are all SDS/SDR/SOR etc.

Great. Thanks for that!

 

[tony_mac]

the Conditions of Carriage say that “full single fare or full
return fare” means the highest priced single or return fare.

Although, AFAIK, that has always been taken to mean just an anytime fare, I don't know what would happen if they decided it to mean the most expensive anytime fare.

(I have only ever seen XC guards sell XC-only anytime fares onboard, and I have never heard of one that didn't, but mentioned it, just in case!)

 

[Ferret]

Thanks for the info. That's what I thought but just wanted to make sure.

I see the XC Only tickets have made a comeback recently! The southwest from Cheltenham onwards now has a plethora of XC fares, as does the northeast. I guess there's a sound business case behind it! Makes me wonder how fair ORCATS actually is!

 

[gpb_croppers63]

the Conditions of Carriage say that “full single fare or full
return fare” means the highest priced single or return fare.

Although, AFAIK, that has always been taken to mean just an anytime fare, I don't know what would happen if they decided it to mean the most expensive anytime fare.

That's why I was unsure about this one. I agree that there's definitely room for confusion which is why I wanted to clarify it. I'll probably have time to get the ticket before I board anyway but I just wanted to check whether the option was there in case my flight is delayed and I'm rushing.

 

[Ferret]

the Conditions of Carriage say that “full single fare or full
return fare” means the highest priced single or return fare.

Although, AFAIK, that has always been taken to mean just an anytime fare, I don't know what would happen if they decided it to mean the most expensive anytime fare.

(I have only ever seen XC guards sell XC-only anytime fares onboard, and I have never heard of one that didn't, but mentioned it, just in case!)

I've had this argument in the messroom with one or two. They say it's a discounted ticket so shouldn't be sold on board. I say that it's an SDS/SDR and it's no different to selling other tickets where there is a variable route option available to the customer. And I reckon I'm right! LOL! a

 

[gpb_croppers63]

I see the XC Only tickets have made a comeback recently! The southwest from Cheltenham onwards now has a plethora of XC fares, as does the northeast. I guess there's a sound business case behind it! Makes me wonder how fair ORCATS actually is!

Yeah I was surprised to see this fare pop up as well. It's £6.30 cheaper than the ScotRail off-peak fare and even offers First Class for £3.80 less than the ScotRail standard class fare!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've had this argument in the messroom with one or two. They say it's a discounted ticket so shouldn't be sold on board. I say that it's an SDS/SDR and it's no different to selling other tickets where there is a variable route option available to the customer. And I reckon I'm right! LOL! a

Lol!! Good point. Hopefully the guard on the train sees it that way too.

 

[Ferret]

Lol!! Good point. Hopefully the guard on the train sees it that way too.

The staff brief on XC Only fares makes it perfectly clear they should be sold on board. I guess I can't be any more unequivocal than that!

 

[gpb_croppers63]

The staff brief on XC Only fares makes it perfectly clear they should be sold on board. I guess I can't be any more unequivocal than that!

That seems clear enough to me. Thanks!

 

[route:oxford]

Do you have mobility problems? Glasgow Queen Street isn't exactly a million miles from Glasgow Central.

You could...

Take the 747 Coach to Ratho Station, then the 900 Coach to Buchanan Street (adjacent to Queen Street), then there is the city hopper service operating between Queen Street, Buchanan Street and Glasgow Central.

Alternatively, when arriving into Edinburgh Airport, I take the Number 35 "Ocean Terminal" bus to Lochside Crescent, Edinburgh Park (15 mins), then walk along Lochside Court to Edinburgh Park railway station (5 mins) for the Queen Street service. Again the city hopper service will take you from Queen Street to Central. If you manage to retain your ticket at the barriers - the cross station service is free.

 

[gpb_croppers63]

Do you have mobility problems? Glasgow Queen Street isn't exactly a million miles from Glasgow Central.

You could...

Take the 747 Coach to Ratho Station, then the 900 Coach to Buchanan Street (adjacent to Queen Street), then there is the city hopper service operating between Queen Street, Buchanan Street and Glasgow Central.

Alternatively, when arriving into Edinburgh Airport, I take the Number 35 "Ocean Terminal" bus to Lochside Crescent, Edinburgh Park (15 mins), then walk along Lochside Court to Edinburgh Park railway station (5 mins) for the Queen Street service. Again the city hopper service will take you from Queen Street to Central. If you manage to retain your ticket at the barriers - the cross station service is free.

Thanks for the advice. I don't have mobility problems so could walk it no problem (and I have walked it in the past) but I'm working on the theory that it's much easier to just get the train to Central if I can. I won't have much luggage so that isn't an issue either. I'll definitely look into both of your options but I would prefer to travel by train than bus if at all possible. The XC ticket just seems like such good value at £5 that I can't see a lot of point doing it any other way.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I see the XC Only tickets have made a comeback recently! The southwest from Cheltenham onwards now has a plethora of XC fares, as does the northeast. I guess there's a sound business case behind it! Makes me wonder how fair ORCATS actually is!

Yes, all the North East ones made a comeback recently. They are an absolute pain in the backside as the wording "XC ONLY" is not only tiny, but not understood by your average passenger. Who then gets on a train operated by a different company and gets charged for a new ticket all over again. Understandably they are often not that happy.

 

[TEW]

I see the XC Only tickets have made a comeback recently! The southwest from Cheltenham onwards now has a plethora of XC fares, as does the northeast. I guess there's a sound business case behind it! Makes me wonder how fair ORCATS actually is!

We've had them in the South West for a while, but only recently have they actually offered any discount. When originally introduced they were more expensive than Any Permitted fares down here.

 

[RPI]

Doesnt edinburgh have barriers?

 

[ainsworth74]

Doesnt edinburgh have barriers?

Only some of the platforms and I can't remember the exact numbers but I think it's only the terminal platforms (facing towards Glasgow/Aberdeen/Inverness) whilst all the through platforms are unbarriered.

 

[Mark_re]

A big problem in the NE is between Durham and Newcastle. The journey is so short that there is no time to check tickets. I went with my mother up to Newcastle last week. The EC TVMs are a bit complex, IMHO, which is why she instantly went for the XC only fare. But even if I didn't spot her error, there's very little chance she'd have had it checked on the EC service in 15 minutes. They just represent lost revenue to EC. TPE usually have time to conduct a ticket check.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've had this argument in the messroom with one or two. They say it's a discounted ticket so shouldn't be sold on board. I say that it's an SDS/SDR and it's no different to selling other tickets where there is a variable route option available to the customer. And I reckon I'm right! LOL! a

I agree - even if it is route-specific, or company-specific, it's still a full-priced ticket in my eyes.

A discount to me refers to either Off-Peak/Advance tickets, or a ticket with a railcar reduction applied. I wouldn't consider a Brum-London Route:High Wycombe ticket a "discount" on the Any Permitted.

 

[Ferret]

I agree - even if it is route-specific, or company-specific, it's still a full-priced ticket in my eyes.

A discount to me refers to either Off-Peak/Advance tickets, or a ticket with a railcar reduction applied. I wouldn't consider a Brum-London Route:High Wycombe ticket a "discount" on the Any Permitted.

That's pretty much the argument I used.

To the poster who mentioned the strange situation with XC only fares in the southwest originally, I noticed that and I did bring it to the attention of the people who could change it. It struck me as very bizarre!

And to the poster who mentioned about lost revenue for East Coast who don't have time to do a ticket check - it's a fair point. Reading between the lines, I believe there is an issue in the distribution of revenue via ORCATS for any permitted fares in that part of the world with one or other of the TOCs feeling they are getting a raw deal. A few years ago, the incumbent of the East Coast franchise introduced their own ticket flow in the northeast, and then withdrew them, and XC have done the same, before recently reintroducing them again. I guess I could argue that it's nice to see competition which in theory should be good for the passenger, but I feel we must guard against confusing them.

 

[LexyBoy]

Presumably XC get more revenue off XC only tickets than Any Permitted ones anyway, so it's better for the company if they are sold on board.

(Or maybe not if the XC only fares are priced to undercut Off-Peak tickets)

 

[AlterEgo]

Presumably XC get more revenue off XC only tickets than Any Permitted ones anyway, so it's better for the company if they are sold on board.

I suspect that's right too. Both the passenger and the carrying TOC "win" in this situation.

 

[LexyBoy]

I guess I could argue that it's nice to see competition which in theory should be good for the passenger, but I feel we must guard against confusing them.

If TOC specific tickets could be excessed like every other routeing restriction then a lot of people would be much happier with them. The fact that they're worthless on other services is the source of grievance and totally unjustified IMO.

 

[Ferret]

If TOC specific tickets could be excessed like every other routeing restriction then a lot of people would be much happier with them. The fact that they're worthless on other services is the source of grievance and totally unjustified IMO.

That's a good point. It must be possible to put in place a mechanism to make excesses an option. Whether there's the will to do it is open to question.

 

[AlterEgo]

If TOC specific tickets could be excessed like every other routeing restriction then a lot of people would be much happier with them. The fact that they're worthless on other services is the source of grievance and totally unjustified IMO.

OK, so a "Virgin only" ticket gives revenue "exclusively" to Virgin, being used on London Midland, incurs a nil excess? London Midland therefore collect no money for the journey.

Fair?

 

[Ferret]

Presumably XC get more revenue off XC only tickets than Any Permitted ones anyway, so it's better for the company if they are sold on board.

(Or maybe not if the XC only fares are priced to undercut Off-Peak tickets)

XC get all of the revenue from XC only fares, less any fee payable to the selling ticket office (I think), or if sold on board, 5% of that fare will go into the TM's pay packet in commission.

 

[LexyBoy]

OK, so a "Virgin only" ticket gives revenue "exclusively" to Virgin, being used on London Midland, incurs a nil excess? London Midland therefore collect no money for the journey.

Fair?

Not the passenger's problem. In any case your argument also applies to change of route excesses. Should all excesses be abolished?

The solution is for excesses to be recorded and the revenue allocated among TOCs as if the original ticket bought were the excessed ticket. This may require revenue to be allocated after a 'holding period', but I'm not an accountant

A simpler solution would be to require TOC-only tickets to have the admin fee on refunds waived, so a ticket would be refunded and new ticket issued instead of an excess. Not ideal, but better than the current system.

A bit academic anyway as ATOC would like to get rid of excesses completely if they could.

 

[AlterEgo]

Not the passenger's problem. In any case your argument also applies to change of route excesses. Should all excesses be abolished?

It would not be passenger friendly, I agree. I wouldn't like to see excesses die out at all. But one has to question the logic of situations where TOCs carry passengers who have paid for a ticket, but don't receive any money!

I can't see Ryanair accepting Easyjet tickets (I know making comparisons to airlines is fatuous, but you see my point).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not the passenger's problem,

Actually it is, if they got on the wrong train. However the excess fares system we have is abundantly fair, and weighted entirely in favour of the passenger.

 

[LexyBoy]

Actually it is, if they got on the wrong train. However the excess fares system we have is abundantly fair, and weighted entirely in favour of the passenger.

I was referring to it being unfair on the TOC. It shouldn't be the passenger's concern where the money goes, that should be sorted out behind the scenes.

I agree that the excess system is very fair on the passenger - my point was that it needs bringing up to date post-privatisation in order to be fair to the TOCs as well. Anyone who has lived somewhere where the buses are not run as a monopoly or by a PTE will know how infuriating it is having competing services which don't accept each other's tickets (one of the reasons why people generally prefer trains to buses IMO) - I'd hate to see the railways go down this route.