Cross Country Fantasy Franchise: What would you do?

[Ashley Lewis]

If I were to run the next cross country franchise i would replace the voyager fleet with 9 carriage Class 800s, for the long distance South West to North Services, and run 5 car class 800s between Nottingham and Cardiff. I would also provide free WiFi to all customers.

The South West to North Services would not stop at Gloucester anymore, (even though very few do anyway) - Gloucester is covered by the Nottingham to Cardiff services.

What would you do with the next cross country franchise?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The entire 22x fleet off to the scrappy. East Midlands 170 routes to either EMT or WMT as appropriate including the 170s used for those. Remaining 170s to Northern.

A brand new homogeneous fleet of 7-car 125mph bi-modes, be they Stadler (in which case probably 10-section), Bombardier or Hitachi, for operating all other services. One coach 1st, rest Standard. Seating to be Grammer IC3000 in Standard and to be window aligned with approximately 50% table seating. First Class to be the First Class IC3000 variant in 2+1 with the 1 side mostly single seats and the 2 side mostly tables. Buffet counter and small standing bar area at the 1st end of Standard. Interior to include wood effect vehicle end panelling/tables, warm white lighting (ideally LED spots) and a subdued, deep colour of seating with moquette seating and leather headrests in both classes.

Leave the rest roughly as it is.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

I think I'd get rid of the small local stopping services and transfer them over to either EMT, GWR, or WMT, thus leaving CrossCountry as just an InterCity operator. I'd also extend the Class 220/221 fleet to at least seven cars because of how I was forced to sit on a floor on a recent trip between Edinburgh and Glasgow. You can't honestly run four/five-coach trains on such services without standing room only on a good few of them. I think I'd also bring some trains to Liverpool as well even, since we did lose a lot of Virgin CrossCountry services a good few years ago to places like Edinburgh, Poole, Portsmouth etc., so I think better connectivity would be in hand too.

 

[Jamm]

The above plus less stops.

 

[swt_passenger]

Do we have to have yet another new XC franchise thread every month?

 

[The Ham]

Do we have to have yet another new XC franchise thread every month?

Yes, just because the suggestion of XC services to Brighton hasn't been suggested before and needs to be heard....

 

[Carlisle]

The entire 22x fleet off to the scrappy. .

I disagree, the 221s with their tilt capability could still provide a number of years useful service to future franchised and /or open access operators on the WCML, prior to the HS 2 revolution.

 

[class26]

I disagree, the 221s with their tilt capability could still provide a number of years useful service to future franchised and /or open access operators on the WCML, prior to the HS 2 revolution.

conditional of a complete interior refit.

 

[The Ham]

I disagree, the 221s with their tilt capability could still provide a number of years useful service to future franchised and /or open access operators on the WCML, prior to the HS 2 revolution.

Future use of 22x's is being discussed here:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/future-of-22x-units.167576/

 

[Carlisle]

Future use of 22x's is being discussed here:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/future-of-22x-units.167576/

Ok thanks.

 

[Aictos]

conditional of a complete interior refit.

Indeed, give them a decent enough refurbishment and they be like new trains, look at what Stagecoach did with their 158s for East Midlands Trains, WAGN with their 317s that became 317/6s or even more recent the refurbishment that First did with the HSTs especially in First Class.

 

[BigCj34]

Wick to Penzance express service. Albeit via the WCML to save some time.

 

[squizzler]

Me personally, I would ask CAF to design a stretched mk5 (26m), and Stadler to develop a high powered bi-mode loco like the Co-Co version of Eurodual they are building in the continent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Me personally, I would ask CAF to design a stretched mk5 (26m), and Stadler to develop a high powered bi-mode loco like the Co-Co version of Eurodual they are building in the continent.

A 23-24m version is probably already doable derived from the WCML EMUs.

 

[squizzler]

A 23-24m version is probably already doable derived from the WCML EMUs.

I would take a bunch of those then. Until the electrification is enough to justify a meaty bi-mode loco i’d probably just run them with a mix of reconditioned HST powercars and 68’s, depending on which routes really need 125mph and where 100mph would be plenty.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Whatever the new stock solution is, it should be capable of being strengthened: whether that means LHCS where you can add an extra carriage to the consist, or DMUs where a self-powered car can be added I don't really care. But let's not work on the basis that our prediction today of passenger loadings for the next twenty years is guaranteed to be right.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Entire fleet of HSTs including replacement of Class 170s.

 

[InterCity:125]

Free WiFi, less stops, less time at each stop, nationalise the franchise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

less time at each stop

I take it you like delays?

 

[DanTrain]

Create a Plymouth-Edinburgh XC ‘express’ service, calling at Newton Abbot, Exeter St D, Taunton, Bristol TM, Bristol Parkway, Birmingham NS, Derby, Sheffield, Wakefield WG, Leeds, York, Newcastle, Edinburgh.

Give the country a proper express service, and Edinburgh to Southampton could then pick up the other stops (taking the path of the First EC service which seems unnescessary), with a Manchester to Plymouth picking up Cheltenham and Tiverton.

This could then be extended to Penzance/Aberdeen/Glasgow as required.

 

[mic505]

Transfer Birmingham-Leicester service to WMT and merge it with Birmingham-Hereford service, thus releasing a unit.
Reintroduction of news 125mph loco-hauled (MK5) stock to eliminate overcrowding and run more services to Exeter.
Transfer Birmingham-Derby-Nottingham service to WMT.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I disagree, the 221s with their tilt capability could still provide a number of years useful service to future franchised and /or open access operators on the WCML, prior to the HS 2 revolution.

OK, scrap all the 220s. 221s to VTWC for the purpose of allowing an hourly Euston-Chester 10 car service with 5 continuing to Holyhead, and of all Euston-Brum-Scotland services to be either 11 car Pendolino or 10 car Voyager.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Transfer Birmingham-Leicester service to WMT

Yeah because Leicester is definitely in the West Midlands.. East Midlands Franchise is much more appropriate.

 

[HowardGWR]

Well, fewer stops anyway.

 

[tbtc]

Split the current franchise into three.

One that runs the Edinburgh/ Nottingham - Birmingham - Cardiff/Plymouth corridor (four trains per hour from Derby to Cheltenham) and one that runs the Manchester - Birmingham - Bournemouth corridor (half hourly from Manchester to Reading).

The Edinburgh - Plymouth service could be merged with the East Midlands franchise (using the same stock as the Sheffield/ Nottingham - London LDHS services*), the Manchester - Bournemouth service could be merged with the WCML franchise (run by the same stock as the Holyhead/ Wrexham/ Shrewsbury - London LDHS services). The alternative would be to merge Edinburgh - Plymouth into the TPE franchise, as it is a fairly small operation.

That significantly simplifies the "network" and paths through Birmingham. It'll inconvenience a few people but I think that the bigger picture justifies it. Manchester had no services to Bristol/ Plymouth for a while under VTXC (when the West Country service was 3tp2h to Yorkshire and 1tp2h to Carlisle via Wigan) - Yorkshire to Reading is always going to be faster via London - I think that the numbers who do those kind of 200 mile journeys are relatively insignificant compared to the numbers who'd benefit from simple longer services over distances of under a hundred miles.

It won't go down well on the Forum, where some people demand direct services from everywhere to everywhere, but I think that some kind of surgery is required to XC to give it freedom to evolve - at the moment the four interconnected branches are reliant upon each other (disruption can easily spread, there's no option to improve frequencies on one leg since they are held back by other legs etc)

(I have no comment to make on minor details like seats, just as long as there are more of the flipping things!)

In the interests of removing terminating services from New Street, merge the WMR services to Shrewsbury with the current XC services to Leicester/ Stansted.

(* - Long Distance High Speed)

 

[Mag_seven]

I would have the following routes:

XC1 - 1tph Plymouth-Exeter-Taunton-Bristol-Birmingham-Derby-Sheffield-Leeds-York-Newcastle-Edinburgh.
XC2 - 1tph Plymouth-Exeter-Taunton-Bristol-Birmingham-Stafford-Stoke-Manchester-Preston-Carlisle-Glasgow
XC3 - 1tph Reading-Oxford-Banbury-Leamington-Birmingham-Derby-Sheffield-Leeds-York-Newcastle-Edinburgh.
XC4 - 1tph Reading-Oxford-Banbury-Leamington- Birmingham-Stafford-Stoke-Manchester-Preston-Carlisle-Glasgow
XC5 - 1tph Manchester-Crewe-Hereford-Cardiff (ex Wales Franchise)
XC6 - 1tph Liverpool-Crewe-Hereford-Cardiff (ex Wales Franchise)

Stock to be a fleet of fixed formation 8 car bi-modes.

 

[mic505]

Leicester is in the East Midlands, actually, according to Wikipedia. Hence WMT's plan is to eliminate as many terminating trains at New Street, depending on performance, punctuality,timetabling and capacity, once New Street is resignalled in 2021, hopefully.

 

[Journeyman]

Reduce the number of short-distance pax by changing ticket acceptance and stopping patterns to encourage local passengers onto other services. The bulk of the serious overcrowding is caused by people making short journeys on trains covering very long distances.

 

[DanTrain]

Reduce the number of short-distance pax by changing ticket acceptance and stopping patterns to encourage local passengers onto other services. The bulk of the serious overcrowding is caused by people making short journeys on trains covering very long distances.

Isn’t that primarily caused by the way XC run the:

• Bristol to Birmingham Express
• Birmingham to Derby express
• Sheffield to Wakefield/Leeds express
• Leeds to Newcastle express
• Oxford to Birmingham express

As well as providing one of only few services on stations between Newcastle and Edinburgh. I’ve also excluded the sections such as Derby - Sheffield and York - Edinburgh where other TOCs also run similarly timed services.

Frankly, for XC to jettison local passengers, as it should, there needs to be a viable alternative - one not provided by Northern Rail for example. The current strategy of very high prices merely punishes those who want to cross the country without going via London. I agree with the premise of reducing local flows, but the implementation stikes me as very hard - perhaps just more capacity (new/ more stock) might be a much better solution.

 

[Senex]

Create a Plymouth-Edinburgh XC ‘express’ service, calling at Newton Abbot, Exeter St D, Taunton, Bristol TM, Bristol Parkway, Birmingham NS, Derby, Sheffield, Wakefield WG, Leeds, York, Newcastle, Edinburgh.

Give the country a proper express service, and Edinburgh to Southampton could then pick up the other stops (taking the path of the First EC service which seems unnescessary), with a Manchester to Plymouth picking up Cheltenham and Tiverton.

This could then be extended to Penzance/Aberdeen/Glasgow as required.

If you want a genuinely fast service, then why add 20-odd minutes by going through Leeds? And if it's to be genuinely express, then why the Newton Abbot, Bristol Parkway, and Wakefield Westgate stops? Further, what is the justification for choosing NE-SW for the express service at the expense of Manchester-SW service?