Cross Country history

[Eagle]

XC to Glasgow is two-hourly. The other hours either terminate at Edinburgh or extend to Dundee and Aberdeen.

 

[thenorthern]

Pre Glasgow extensions weren't services to Dundee two hourly?
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I think CrossCountry also for a short time also operated a Derby to Manchester Piccadilly via New Street and Stoke-on-Trent train, I never got the point in that and why it didn't run via Uttoxeter.

 

[Eagle]

I think CrossCountry also for a short time also operated a Derby to Manchester Piccadilly via New Street and Stoke-on-Trent train, I never got the point in that and why it didn't run via Uttoxeter.

Because XC don't (and never have) run via Uttoxeter. It's not one of their routes. Also if you sent it that way you'd lose a Birmingham to Manchester service, which is what it effectively was.

That service was basically a Derby to Birmingham service and a Birmingham to Manchester service, that just happened to be operated by the same unit and so were advertised as a through service. I don't think anyone would actually use it to go from Derby to Manchester; it'd be quicker to go a more direct route such as via Sheffield.

 

[thenorthern]

Because XC don't (and never have) run via Uttoxeter. It's not one of their routes. Also if you sent it that way you'd lose a Birmingham to Manchester service, which is what it effectively was.

That service was basically a Derby to Birmingham service and a Birmingham to Manchester service, that just happened to be operated by the same unit and so were advertised as a through service. I don't think anyone would actually use it to go from Derby to Manchester; it'd be quicker to go a more direct route such as via Sheffield.

Would have thought it would have been good for route retaining purposes.

 

[Eagle]

But why is that a route that XC ever need? XC never avoid Birmingham.

As I've said, stop thinking of it as an end-to-end service when really it's two.

 

[thenorthern]

But why is that a route that XC ever need? XC never avoid Birmingham.

As I've said, stop thinking of it as an end-to-end service when really it's two.

Fair point.

 

[43074]

Pre Glasgow extensions weren't services to Dundee two hourly?

That was a while ago, 2002/2003ish IIRC. They were cut back to Edinburgh to improve performance after the disastrous operation princess timetable.

 

[dannypye9999]

That was a while ago, 2002/2003ish IIRC. They were cut back to Edinburgh to improve performance after the disastrous operation princess timetable.

How was it disastrous? Back then there was a more direct service than todays "You'll have to make a connection" timetable.

Since 1997 we have waved goodbye to Portsmouth, Brighton, Gatwick, Swansea, Poole & Weymouth, Bolton, Liverpool, Bradford, Blackpool and Swindon. Disastrous?? That is just one of the many words I would use on todays timetable.

 

[thenorthern]

How was it disastrous? Back then there was a more direct service than todays "You'll have to make a connection" timetable.

Since 1997 we have waved goodbye to Portsmouth, Brighton, Gatwick, Swansea, Poole & Weymouth, Bolton, Liverpool, Bradford, Blackpool and Swindon. Disastrous?? That is just one of the many words I would use on todays timetable.

In those times I think there were more services that were extended to Cardiff Central.

 

[dannypye9999]

In those times I think there were more services that were extended to Cardiff Central.

At 4 hour intervals from New Street.

 

[43074]

How was it disastrous? Back then there was a more direct service than todays "You'll have to make a connection" timetable.

Since 1997 we have waved goodbye to Portsmouth, Brighton, Gatwick, Swansea, Poole & Weymouth, Bolton, Liverpool, Bradford, Blackpool and Swindon. Disastrous?? That is just one of the many words I would use on todays timetable.

Before 2002, the network could cope with trains to Liverpool, Blackpool, Portsmouth, Poole etc. because there were not many trains going to these places but when Operation Princess was introduced the frequency of services to these places more than doubled. It was disastrous because the network couldn't cope with the extra trains Virgin were trying to run when the network was still struggling after the effects of Hatfield, and Railtrack had just collapsed.

Operationally, the trains were very unreliable and were often cut back short of destination (e.g. the Liverpool trains often turned back at Crewe, Dundees at Edinburgh) and the new Voyagers were very overcrowded. It also put more pressure on already overcrowded lines, such as Derby to Birmingham: before Op Princess there were two trains per hour (tph) between Derby and Birmingham operated by Central Trains, and one other operated by Virgin. From October 2002, Virgin introduced Operation Princess and their service doubled to 2tph. At the same time Central Trains added a third service between Matlock and Birmingham calling at all stations, so the service was unreliable because of all of this pressure.

In January 2003, the SRA intervened and removed the Dundee extensions, and cut many off peak services to Penzance to Plymouth to free up Voyagers to lengthen more services because of the Overcrowding Virgin Trains were experiencing.

From May 2003, Portsmouth, Blackpool etc. were removed from the network so it could operated more reliably, and other TOCs services such as Oxford to Bristol and Matlock to Birmingham were withdrawn to improve reliability.

The network simply could not cope with the extra pressure put on it by Virgin Trains, and they had to cut back because of this leaving (a better version of) what we have today, essentially.

 

[Darandio]

One thing I never get is why Virgin Trains don't stop at Tamworth and Motherwell but CrossCountry regularly stop at both.

But Virgin do stop at Motherwell

Granted, not that frequently.

 

[driver9000]

One of the things that surprised me was the lack of variety of passenger trains. Virgin Pendelino's and Voyagers on the London/Midland to Scotland routes and Trans Pennine express class 185's on the Manchester Airport to Scotland routes. (some 350's are just being introduced to replace the 185's)
Apart from the occasional charter that is it.

I am not sure if the Cross Country brand actually used that route in the past but I remember there were long distance trains from other companies one of which was 'The European' from Harwich to Scotland.

I am surprised there are not now more long distance destinations using that route.

Until 2007 CrossCountry was firmly established on the WCML going back to InteryCity days with trains from as far away as Penzance and Aberdeen (The Cornish Scot). Most CrossCountry workings prior to Voyagers was in the hands of 86/2 locomotives hauling mk2 coaches with HSTs handling the longer distance services. Ahhh.....memories

 

[thenorthern]

But Virgin do stop at Motherwell

Granted, not that frequently.

Fair point, I should of added frequently.

 

[driver9000]

Fair point, I should of added frequently.

I remember when most of the Glasgow-London services called at Motherwell.