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Cross Country overcrowding - shortage of rolling stock

Energy

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Seems to happen at a lot of other operators though - SWR trains between the peaks for example are extremely quiet in my experience! And been on many a lightly loaded LNER service on a weekday late morning/early afternoon.
When well managed this is a good thing, on operators with multiple trains coupled together running 12 cars at peak and 6/8 cars off peak allows the uncoupled units to go into maintanence in the day time.

Running full size sets throughout the day is great for capacity but requires either more sets (and worse utilisation) or employing more maintanence staff at night which is costly.

Bringing it back to XC, a good idea might be coupling between say Reading and Wolverhampton during the peaks, Reading is already a reversal.

Of course XC needs enough stock for this...

LNER has 10 5-car bimodes (all IEP contract)
GWR has 36 5-car IEP contract bimodes and 22 non-IEP bimodes
Total 68

XC currently has 58 voyagers (increasing to 65 soon), so if sufficient replacements were sourced (so more CAF units for LNER, and a new, 125mph 9+ car EMU for GWR after electrification of key lines (at least Bristol both ways, Oxford and Swansea)), so XC would likely be a few units short after the 5-cars that GWR would likely want to retain for the services where they are needed (mostly services beyond oxford)
GWR also need some for Carmathen.

A full IET replacement would need slightly fewer, double voyager diagrams can be covered by a single well laid out 5 car IET without loosing capacity.

The GWR and LNER units aren't ideal as they have quite a lot of space wasted by the kitchen.

Before specifying IETs or equivalents I'd question whether XC actually needs 125mph stock on Manchester - Bristol/Bournemouth. The cab ends waste a lot of space...

On lumo the intermediate cars manage 94 seats, the driving vehicles manage 60.
 
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Ken H

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When well managed this is a good thing, on operators with multiple trains coupled together running 12 cars at peak and 6/8 cars off peak allows the uncoupled units to go into maintanence in the day time.

Running full size sets throughout the day is great for capacity but requires either more sets (and worse utilisation) or employing more maintanence staff at night which is costly.

Bringing it back to XC, a good idea might be coupling between say Reading and Wolverhampton during the peaks, Reading is already a reversal.

Of course XC needs enough stock for this...


...
and staff to do the coupling/uncoupling and putting away the unwanted units
 

I'm here now

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That’s pretty much it. If people are getting what they pay for then they don’t paying for it.

The trouble with the railways is the amount of waste and the amount of short-termism. XC is probably the biggest example of this. Small trains cost more to run per seat than bigger trains. Most leisure travel is on advance tickets which, by their very nature, are limited by the number of seats on a train. Everything about it becomes less attractive to customers and more expensive to operate. XC have tried to combat this with eye-watering fares, but the rise of split ticketing prevents the worst of this. It’s no wonder that XC struggle.

XC should have been included in one of the IET orders, either the original IEP or the later commercial agreements with Hitachi.
Recently, on a trip to Bristol from the SW I found that XC was the only one offering advance ticketing. Strange… It was also pretty full.
 

Snow1964

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When well managed this is a good thing, on operators with multiple trains coupled together running 12 cars at peak and 6/8 cars off peak allows the uncoupled units to go into maintanence in the day time.

Running full size sets throughout the day is great for capacity but requires either more sets (and worse utilisation) or employing more maintanence staff at night which is costly.

Bringing it back to XC, a good idea might be coupling between say Reading and Wolverhampton during the peaks, Reading is already a reversal.
I think this is why a few people have suggested the voyager fleet needs to be reformed, for most trains it only needs longer trains in the core, but doesn't need double sets going to extremities.

Generally agreed that 4car units are too low capacity on their own (except at service extremitres), so need to be reformed. The best suggestion seems to be to have a 5-6car fleet, supplemented by some all standard class strengthening sets 2-3cars. Having First class in two coupled sets never seems to provide good consistent standards so better off having main train and extra core capacity where trolley can visit between certain stations

Regarding coupling/uncoupling, in addition to Reading, many XC trains are timed to wait 10-15 minutes at Bristol, so would be good location too, (although running the mini set to Bath, reversing in Bathampton loop might be winner too), I will leave it to others to suggest best place in north to couple/uncouple.
 

Tetchytyke

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Bringing it back to XC, a good idea might be coupling between say Reading and Wolverhampton during the peaks, Reading is already a reversal.
XC has always done this, with units getting attached at Bristol and detached at Newcastle across the day.

The problem comes back to having the staff to do it.
 

YorkRailFan

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Snow1964

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Modern Railways saying XC to get 5 221s on top of the 7 they were getting?


Good news:
@CrossCountryUK
has secured an additional five Class 221 Voyagers to augment its fleet. They are in addition to the seven extra 221s already announced. The extra sets will be progressively introduced from June 2024.
Also being reported in Rail uk

 

virgintrain1

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Although of course the original 7 were to replace the HSTs, so having just 5 out of the supposedly remaining 11 that are unspoken for, still feels XC are being short changed.
 

Snow1964

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With extra 7 and now another 5

Will give Cross Country extra 24% (60 vehicles)

Currently have 34 x 4 car 220 (136 vehicles) and 20 x 5 car plus 4 x 4 car 221 (116 vehicles) = total 252

They also have 170s so the reporting of 25% extra seats is rather misleading)
 

Iskra

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With extra 7 and now another 5

Will give Cross Country extra 24% (60 vehicles)

Currently have 34 x 4 car 220 (136 vehicles) and 20 x 5 car plus 4 x 4 car 221 (116 vehicles) = total 252

They also have 170s so the reporting of 25% extra seats is rather misleading)
And the refurbishment, while needed is also going to remove some units from frontline service so it could be a while before any additional capacity is actually realised. And then there’s the question of staffing additional units…
 

Starmill

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Modern Railways saying XC to get 5 221s on top of the 7 they were getting?


Good news:
@CrossCountryUK
has secured an additional five Class 221 Voyagers to augment its fleet. They are in addition to the seven extra 221s already announced. The extra sets will be progressively introduced from June 2024.
Props to CrossCountry for making the case. It seems clear they've been angling for it behind the scenes since Avanti first inked their order. There are a lot of things they've tried and rather failed to make the case for so this is one (albeit small on a pan-industry view) victory for both their senior management and the end user. It's almost a relief someone's actually managed to achieve something in relation to CrossCountry.
 

dk1

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Better than nothing so improvements are on the way. I remember Andy Cooper saying when he was MD that they could eliminate the worst of the overcrowding across the UK with just a few more units.
 

swt_passenger

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Just for interest, the additional 5 units have also been discussed for most of today in the “Voyager refurbishment“ thread in the rolling stock forum.
 

py_megapixel

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May have already been answered but how many Voyager diagrams does XC currently have on a weekday, and how many of those are already doubles?
 

jagardner1984

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Really beggars belief BBC are running the “extra capacity” drivel from the DfT without the context that DfT ordered withdrawal of 4 x 445 seat HST diagrams barely 6 months ago.


Presumably, given the public finances etc, the warnings were stark about the consequences of running this summer on single 4 car Voyagers as a demonstrably lower capacity than even the inadequate capacity offered last year, so another “jam tomorrow” story promises action and delivery long after those who promise it will be long gone.
 

Mark J

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A shame the BBC didn't run that article through their 'fact checking' service.

Then they would of clearly realised that was a load of old bull.
 

Richard123

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A shame the BBC didn't run that article through their 'fact checking' service.

Then they would of clearly realised that was a load of old bull.
Agreed - there was a time when government announcements could be trusted, but this looks like a deliberate untruth.

They even managed to mention in their previous story (at the bottom of headline and story promising 7 new trains of capacity) that these seven replaced HSTs. So it's not even as though they didn't know, let alone bother to question the press release...
 

irish_rail

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A shame the BBC didn't run that article through their 'fact checking' service.

Then they would of clearly realised that was a load of old bull.
Yes they bang on about how they fact check and verify everything ad nauseum, shame they don't care to do that when it comes to rail.
 

dk1

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Yes they bang on about how they fact check and verify everything ad nauseum, shame they don't care to do that when it comes to rail.

I never understand how they can get fine details so wrong with most things rail. It’s always escaped me and so unprofessional for such an organisation.
 

Trainbike46

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What is the terrifying part, to me, is that it isn't just rail where many news organisations (including the BBC, most newspapers, and Dutch public broadcasters) get important details and context wrong.

In every area where I have enough knowledge to spot such mistakes, I find them in most articles in most news sources. This suggests that this level of inaccuracies is normal throughout the news, including in areas where I don't have the knowledge to realise it - what have I accepted at face value from news sources that is simply wrong?
 

jagardner1984

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I’ve put in a complaint about the article to the BBC so will let you know what happens when someone in their office googles “Cross Country Overcrowding”

I gave them a fairly long list of links to questions in parliament, articles going back a decade on the topic, and news articles on HST withdrawal so to be fair, they don’t even need to bother to google. What is more depressing is that this was posted on the BBC Bristol “local” page so the usual … media is so London centric (which is largely true) thing doesn’t even apply.
 

The Planner

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