Cross Country should abolish first class until capacity issues are addressed

[setdown]

First class really needs permanently declassifying, until capacity is properly sorted.

Also, there’s posters at Southampton Central this morning saying there’ll be disruption today because of a lack of drivers.

If you don’t have enough drivers, then you’ve ultimately failed as a train company. Not surprised the MD is gone.

 

[JonathanH]

First class really needs permanently declassifying, until capacity is properly sorted.

26 seats are neither here not there given that there is first class demand for those seats as well. Are you thinking it could be used for standing capacity?

 

[setdown]

Yes, absolutely. Seats, standing, sat on the floor, luggage racks, wherever. Be honest with passengers. Things are rubbish now, but we can’t magic trains out of anywhere soon. Until then, we will do absolutely everything we can to maximise capacity for everyone, so first class is declassified.

It wouldn’t make a world of difference, but it would be a powerful gesture of choosing passengers over increased revenue (temporarily!)

 

[Peterthegreat]

Yes, absolutely. Seats, standing, sat on the floor, luggage racks, wherever. Be honest with passengers. Things are rubbish now, but we can’t magic trains out of anywhere soon. Until then, we will do absolutely everything we can to maximise capacity for everyone, so first class is declassified.

It wouldn’t make a world of difference, but it would be a powerful gesture of choosing passengers over increased revenue (temporarily!)

And permanently driving away first class passengers.

 

[43066]

If you don’t have enough drivers, then you’ve ultimately failed as a train company.

That applies to just about every train company in the UK.

 

[Towers]

And permanently driving away first class passengers.

How many packed XC services have a Train Manager able or willing to actively maintain the exclusivity of first class, turfing everybody else out after every stop? And how many of them end up with a load of standard class punters overspilling into the first accommodation anyway, as there’s nowhere else for them to go? On the very busiest of XC services the chances are that first is often effectively declassified by default anyway.

A four car intercity train operating on services that are notorious for chronic overcrowding absolutely should not have 25% of its accommodation dedicated to first class, regardless of whether it’s profitable or not. Not unless there’s a concerted effort to make the service reservation only, and we know that isn’t going to happen.

 

[Killingworth]

26 seats are neither here not there given that there is first class demand for those seats as well. Are you thinking it could be used for standing capacity?

On a recent journey I upgraded on Seatfrog and found very few spare seats there either. It seems many are now doing this not dissuaded by price. A seat with standees crowding in the doorway, some sitting on the floor!

And we've sent HSTs to Mexico and Nigeria, but that decision wasn't down to Tom Joyner.

 

[TUC]

How many packed XC services have a Train Manager able or willing to actively maintain the exclusivity of first class, turfing everybody else out after every stop?

Isn't that part of the purpose of ticket checks in First Class?

 

[Silenos]

Isn't that part of the purpose of ticket checks in First Class?

Presumably it’s not physically possible to move through the train to carry out ticket checks?

 

[Towers]

Isn't that part of the purpose of ticket checks in First Class?

Nobody is doing that on a crush loaded Voyager.

 

[Carlisle]

How many packed XC services have a Train Manager able or willing to actively maintain the exclusivity of first class,

Shouldn’t be impossible if theres spare seats in Standard as the TMs office is next to First Class, obviously not possible if full & standing.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Presumably it’s not physically possible to move through the train to carry out ticket checks?

Even if it is physically possible, from my experience on severely overcrowded XC and GWR trains, the crew (rightly, in my view) priortise things like distributing bottled water and ensuring toilet access over checking tickets.

 

[Russel]

Isn't that part of the purpose of ticket checks in First Class?

Where do you expect those standing in First Class to move to? They aren't standing in there for the sake of it...

 

[Towers]

Shouldn’t be impossible if theres spare seats in Standard as the TMs office is next to First Class, obviously not possible if full & standing.

And full & standing is what they very often are!

 

[Starmill]

Nobody is doing that on a crush loaded Voyager.

Sadly it does happen on XC. I've witnessed them shouting at people to leave First Class when I've been seated in there with my First Class ticket, and the passengers giving the retort that there's no space in Standard to stand. I've also witnessed them trying to persuade people not to board the train, and standing blocking the door at the cab end of First. They will also charge people who sit there and don't have First Class tickets for the excess.

 

[JonathanH]

They will also charge people who sit there and don't have First Class tickets for the excess.

That isn't unreasonable if any of the passengers in first class have paid to be there - clearly the other option is to refund the first class passengers the additional fare they paid.

 

[P Binnersley]

And permanently driving away first class passengers.

My Boss, who regularly travels first class, avoids Cross Country like the plague.

He can generally get cheaper tickets travelling via London and a better first class service.

 

[DelW]

My Boss, who regularly travels first class, avoids Cross Country like the plague.

He can generally get cheaper tickets travelling via London and a better first class service.

As one who regularly travels between west Surrey and the Midlands, my preferred route used to be GWR to Reading then XC onwards. That was when one could expect to get a seat (in standard class in my case).

For the last few years, I have completely switched to going via London. Even with the tube transfer on the Northern line, and Avanti's problems on the WCML, it's still preferable to the XC "experience".

 

[Towers]

As one who regularly travels between west Surrey and the Midlands, my preferred route used to be GWR to Reading then XC onwards. That was when one could expect to get a seat (in standard class in my case).

For the last few years, I have completely switched to going via London. Even with the tube transfer on the Northern line, and Avanti's problems on the WCML, it's still preferable to the XC "experience".

Quite. A National Express or Megabus would be preferable to the XC “experience” on many occasions; an asolute disgrace to the railway frankly. And to the successive governments who have continually decreed that it shall remain the utter mess that it always has been.

 

[dk1]

A National Express or Megabus would be preferable to the XC “experience” on many occasions;

Blimey!! Nothing could be that bad

 

[Bletchleyite]

Blimey!! Nothing could be that bad

TBH Voyager interiors are cramped enough that they aren't much better than a coach. And while the railway has progressively downgraded interiors, NatEx at least has been upgrading them.

 

[dk1]

TBH Voyager interiors are cramped enough that they aren't much better than a coach. And while the railway has progressively downgraded interiors, NatEx at least has been upgrading them.

Still be desperation for me to travel by coach. RR bus is bad enough. Give me a Voyager vestibule or just wait for the next train any day over that option.

 

[Towers]

Still be desperation for me to travel by coach. RR bus is bad enough. Give me a Voyager vestibule or just wait for the next train any day over that option.

Much rather a seat and a window than a sweaty vestibule with “toilet features”, personally! But each to their own!

 

[Russel]

TBH Voyager interiors are cramped enough that they aren't much better than a coach. And while the railway has progressively downgraded interiors, NatEx at least has been upgrading them.

The overnight National Express from Birmingham to Glasgow is actually a much nicer option than heading down to London to use the seated sleeper in my experience, but that's going a little off topic!

 

[STINT47]

Still be desperation for me to travel by coach. RR bus is bad enough. Give me a Voyager vestibule or just wait for the next train any day over that option.

I think your judging coaches to harshly. I use National Express from time to time and they have modern comfortable coaches, they're in a better internal condition than Cross Country Voyagers.

I prefer rail travelbut if the train is going to be full and when you factor in the cost saving then the coach becomes a viable alternative.

 

[duffield]

Another bad day today on XC. Trains diverted via Lichfield between Derby and Birmingham, so the Nottingham to Birmingham service was reduced to a shuttle between Nottingham and Derby. Arrived at Derby on a packed 2 coach 170 to change onto the York to Plymouth service (1146 from Derby). Four coach voyager turns up, already heaving, many passengers from Nottingham unable to board and told to wait an hour. I went elsewhere...

A few hours later on an XC Manchester to Bournemouth service, passengers just about crammed in around the Birmingham/Coventry area, but effectively no access to the toilets due to the overcrowding.

 

[Iskra]

As one who regularly travels between west Surrey and the Midlands, my preferred route used to be GWR to Reading then XC onwards. That was when one could expect to get a seat (in standard class in my case).

For the last few years, I have completely switched to going via London. Even with the tube transfer on the Northern line, and Avanti's problems on the WCML, it's still preferable to the XC "experience".

It's great that you have the choice, many on the XC network have XC or nothing, or a choice between crowded XC and another operator with insufficient capacity. Leeds-Sheffield is a joke.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I’ve mentioned it here before, but I once had the ‘pleasure’ of a journey from Derby to Birmingham in a XC Voyager toilet along with 5 other people and luggage. It was companionable, in the way that being stuck on the Piccadilly line in a rush hour signalling failure is companionable. You collectively support and counsel the other unfortunates around you.

 

[class 9]

It's great that you have the choice, many on the XC network have XC or nothing, or a choice between crowded XC and another operator with insufficient capacity. Leeds-Sheffield is a joke.

This weekend has been even worse than usual due to Kings Cross closed, at lot of these passengers using EMR/ XC between Derby & further north.

 

[Carlisle]

This weekend has been even worse than usual due to Kings Cross closed,

The Avanti Edinburgh services have been full & standing also.