Cross Country treating customers as sardines

[BREMENMURRAY]

It seems to be the policy of Cross Country to cram as many passengers as possible into too short trains. More often than not one first class and three second class carriages trains are overflowing. Attempting to get from Birmingham New St to Oxford using the 12:03 17 November 2024 I along with other passengers was left on the platform. The train was late and became even later as passengers pushed and shoved to get aboard before the doors shut.

 

[JonathanH]

It seems to be the policy of Cross Country to cram as many passengers as possible into too short trains.

It has been the policy of successive government sponsored bodies not to enable CrossCountry to offer the all day capacity that passenger numbers would imply to be necessary. It has been that way for over 20 years.

The business case for longer trains has never passed the necessary hurdles for further funding.

 

[ChrisC]

It seems to be the policy of Cross Country to cram as many passengers as possible into too short trains. More often than not one first class and three second class carriages trains are overflowing. Attempting to get from Birmingham New St to Oxford using the 12:03 17 November 2024 I along with other passengers was left on the platform. The train was late and became even later as passengers pushed and shoved to get aboard before the doors shut.

There‘s nothing new here. Cross Country have been treating customers like sardines for well over 20 years now. They also charge customers very high prices to be treated like a sardine.

 

[47434]

I avoid travelling XC at all costs - which is tricky!

 

[trainophile]

I've just booked the Cardiff to Edinburgh experience for the end of January, in standard class! I do have a seat reservation all the way but if I get up for the loo, which I'm bound to have to once or twice, what's the chances of getting through to it, or still having a seat when I get back?

 

[Merseysider]

It seems to be the policy of Cross Country to cram as many passengers as possible into too short trains. More often than not one first class and three second class carriages trains are overflowing. Attempting to get from Birmingham New St to Oxford using the 12:03 17 November 2024 I along with other passengers was left on the platform. The train was late and became even later as passengers pushed and shoved to get aboard before the doors shut.

Unfortunately your experience is nothing new.

XC are getting a handful of Voyagers from Avanti but this only replaces the HSTs which they lost in the not too distant past.

If you can't fit everybody on, price half of them off - CrossCountry, probably

I've just booked the Cardiff to Edinburgh experience for the end of January, in standard class! I do have a seat reservation all the way but if I get up for the loo, which I'm bound to have to once or twice, what's the chances of getting through to it, or still having a seat when I get back?

Go at least 5 minutes after a station stop and you'll be fine. Leave something eg a drink on your seat table to show it's occupied if you want - I've never had a seat 'stolen' on XC... but a few times it has been far too busy and it's been almost impossible to reach the WC.

 

[12LDA28C]

It seems to be the policy of Cross Country to cram as many passengers as possible into too short trains. More often than not one first class and three second class carriages trains are overflowing. Attempting to get from Birmingham New St to Oxford using the 12:03 17 November 2024 I along with other passengers was left on the platform. The train was late and became even later as passengers pushed and shoved to get aboard before the doors shut.

There are plenty of threads on this subject already if you care to conduct a search. Do we really need another one?

 

[dk1]

Apart from the 12 Voyagers transferring from AWC there isn’t really much hope on the horizon. Any additional capacity will soon be swallowed up on many XC routes as passenger numbers continue to grow.

 

[BREMENMURRAY]

There are plenty of threads on this subject already if you care to conduct a search. Do we really need another one?

Yes for the benefit of new members who are constantly told "you must travel on the booked train with advance tickets"

 

[Halwynd]

I've avoided XC since 2003.

I started travelling via London instead, but then GWR introduced uncomfortable, rammed or sometimes short-formed Hitachi trains. I tried flying to Newquay but that was a bit of a palava, so I drove - that was a tiring pain in the backside so now I just don't bother going to some of the places I used to.

 

[swt_passenger]

Unfortunately your experience is nothing new.

XC are getting a handful of Voyagers from Avanti but this only replaces the HSTs which they lost in the not too distant past.

It’s been noted in a number of previous similar threads that they’re getting more than enough units to replace the HST’s. The original 7 was increased to 12.

 

[trainophile]

I believe Lumo is reservation only, and it seems to work. Would anyone wittingly book a ticket for a journey of any length over half an hour, in the certain knowledge that they would have to stand? I don't see the problem with reservation only, at least you know you're getting a seat.

 

[38Cto15E]

I only travel with Cross Country when I have no alternative.
The other week my wife and eight friends wanted to go from Leicester to Newcastle and back, I directed them to go via Peterborough, OK, I know CC to PBO but it was better than being in a four car Plymouth to Edinburgh sardine special.

 

[dk1]

I believe Lumo is reservation only, and it seems to work. Would anyone wittingly book a ticket for a journey of any length over half an hour, in the certain knowledge that they would have to stand? I don't see the problem with reservation only, at least you know you're getting a seat.

That’s only because Lumo offer a very limited service and other proper operators operate the route. That would never work where XC are the only operator between certain stations on their network.

 

[JonathanH]

Would anyone wittingly book a ticket for a journey of any length over half an hour, in the certain knowledge that they would have to stand? I don't see the problem with reservation only, at least you know you're getting a seat.

The problem is that many journeys on CrossCountry are not more than half an hour, and the reservations would run out so many wouldn't be able to travel.

 

[Trainbike46]

Apart from the 12 Voyagers transferring from AWC there isn’t really much hope on the horizon. Any additional capacity will soon be swallowed up on many XC routes as passenger numbers continue to grow.

It’s been noted in a number of previous similar threads that they’re getting more than enough units to replace the HST’s. The original 7 was increased to 12.

12 is clearly better than 7, so it is an improvement for sure. Potentially the remaining 8 could also join XC, there is no public long term home for them (2 are currently at Grand Central, however if GC gets a new track access agreement they will be getting new bimodes, and if they don't get a track access agreement they won't need them much longer - note the future of GC beyond the voyagers is off-topic here).

I have previously proposed various cascades from GWR and LNER in other threads on this forum, but they are unlikely to happen, especially anytime soon.

 

[dk1]

The problem is that many journeys on CrossCountry are not more than half an hour, and the reservations would run out so many wouldn't be able to travel.

Would be a very sad day with compulsory reservations. I never see that happening however with XC.

 

[Trainbike46]

The compulsory reservations discussion has been moved to this other thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...with-walk-up-passengers-denied-travel.277151/

 

[AlterEgo]

I believe Lumo is reservation only

It isn't!

 

[dk1]

It isn't!

I was going to say, don’t they get a cut from the ‘open ticket’ market?

Just seen on their website that some ‘non reservable’ seating is provided. I personally never reserve and have not had a problem with GC or HT on the ECML.

 

[trainophile]

Okay my mistake, sorry. I think they (Lumo) like to give the impression that you must have a reservation, but obviously it isn't rigidly applied.

 

[JonathanH]

1827 from Plymouth to Birmingham has about 50 passengers aboard leaving Plymouth this evening, which is where the long trains needed during the day would be overprovision at other times. No doubt at some point during its journey from Glasgow this morning it was full.

 

[nw1]

1827 from Plymouth to Birmingham has about 50 passengers aboard leaving Plymouth this evening, which is where the long trains needed during the day would be overprovision at other times. No doubt at some point during its journey from Glasgow this morning it was full.

In the good old days of course no-one would have got worked up about one unit of the two doubtless needed for the southbound journey being left at Plymouth sidings with the above 1827 service being formed of the other.
"Overprovision" was never a concern, it was just treated as a necessary part of providing a service where demand fluctuated throughout the day and the year.

I avoid travelling XC at all costs - which is tricky!

Indeed. When they were hauled by your namesake loco class of course, it was a much more civilised experience (IMX, at least).

 

[Halwynd]

Overprovision" was never a concern, it was just treated as a necessary part of providing a service where demand fluctuated throughout the day and the year.

Precisely.

 

[Kite159]

And I wonder how many of those passengers who boarded at Birmingham New Street were simply travelling to Coventry (or Birmingham International), simply using XC as it's faster than the LNR stopper. Similar issue at the Manchester end with passengers for Stoke/Macclesfield using XC rather than Northern

The only way it can be improved is ripping out some stops on the routes shared with alternative services (i.e. non-stop Stafford to Birmingham & then to Leamington Spa)

 

[172007]

And I wonder how many of those passengers who boarded at Birmingham New Street were simply travelling to Coventry (or Birmingham International), simply using XC as it's faster than the LNR stopper. Similar issue at the Manchester end with passengers for Stoke/Macclesfield using XC rather than Northern

The only way it can be improved is ripping out some stops on the routes shared with alternative services (i.e. non-stop Stafford to Birmingham & then to Leamington Spa)

This but also platform segregation, Birmingham International having a dedicated platform face with barriers for Avanti and XC so Cov and New Street Passengers can't board and have this provision at other stations. New Street missed this tr8ck with its redesign tbh or should have barriers at the top of the escalators so only long distance can board (yes there are the lifts to police but not every avenue can be covered)

I also support stripping out some stations to support provide room for longer distance travellers rather than one hop commuters and shoppers

Something needs to be done to stop XC Voyager routes from being used as local stopping services.

 

[DarloRich]

It seems to be the policy of Cross Country to cram as many passengers as possible into too short trains. More often than not one first class and three second class carriages trains are overflowing. Attempting to get from Birmingham New St to Oxford using the 12:03 17 November 2024 I along with other passengers was left on the platform. The train was late and became even later as passengers pushed and shoved to get aboard before the doors shut.

It has been like this for the best part of 20 years.

 

[JonathanH]

Something needs to be done to stop XC Voyager routes from being used as local stopping services.

Surely only at certain times of the day. Like it or not Avanti and XC have to carry a large number of passengers between Coventry, Birmingham and Wolverhampton to leave room for passengers at intermediate stations.

 

[cactustwirly]

This but also platform segregation, Birmingham International having a dedicated platform face with barriers for Avanti and XC so Cov and New Street Passengers can't board and have this provision at other stations. New Street missed this tr8ck with its redesign tbh or should have barriers at the top of the escalators so only long distance can board (yes there are the lifts to police but not every avenue can be covered)

I also support stripping out some stations to support provide room for longer distance travellers rather than one hop commuters and shoppers

Something needs to be done to stop XC Voyager routes from being used as local stopping services.

This is impossible as LNR use the same platforms as XC at Coventry and Birmingham international.

It's impossible to segregate local passengers for Coleshill, Nuneaton or Burton at New Street as the 170 routes use the same platforms as Voyagers at New Street

 

[nw1]

And I wonder how many of those passengers who boarded at Birmingham New Street were simply travelling to Coventry (or Birmingham International), simply using XC as it's faster than the LNR stopper. Similar issue at the Manchester end with passengers for Stoke/Macclesfield using XC rather than Northern

The only way it can be improved is ripping out some stops on the routes shared with alternative services (i.e. non-stop Stafford to Birmingham & then to Leamington Spa)

I can't see deleting Wolverhampton/International/Coventry as a good idea, as it would cut off inter-city links on XC routes from those stations.

I can see that passengers for such stations would not want to use the all-station stoppers though. What about the New Street - Euston semi-fasts, are they still International and Coventry only before stopping at most stops to Watford?