• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Cross Country treating customers as sardines

Indigo Soup

Established Member
Joined
17 May 2018
Messages
1,400
The main catch seems to be you need someone to take you to a motorway service station where many pick ups are.
My parents are travelling to Southampton to meet a ship later in the year - their coach runs direct from a major bus station. Said bus station is over 100 miles from their house, true, but for people living in the city it's very convenient indeed.
Incidently the cruise companies do offer fixed price coaches to Southampton, and can be booked months ahead. Cross Country do not allow bookings until a few weeks ahead.
The other crucial thing is that if the cruise company's coach is late, they'll hold the ship. If CrossCountry are late, you lose your holiday.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
19,983
My parents are travelling to Southampton to meet a ship later in the year - their coach runs direct from a major bus station. Said bus station is over 100 miles from their house, true, but for people living in the city it's very convenient indeed.

The other crucial thing is that if the cruise company's coach is late, they'll hold the ship. If CrossCountry are late, you lose your holiday.
Plus luggage handled from coach to cruise ship?
 

BrianW

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2017
Messages
1,833
A significant number will be coming from far enough afield that they might consider a boat train, if one existed. A lot of the operators do run coaches from as far afield as southern Scotland. There's a market there for passengers who don't want to fly, and the service being provided by the cruise operator means that the risk of delays sits with them, rather than the passenger.

I suspect that if (say) P&O chartered a train to run Glasgow-Birmingham-Southampton via some sensible route, it would pick up a decent loading. The overlap between the 'cruise from Southampton' market and the 'Granny wants put on a through train' market is pretty considerable. But the operational and economic constraints of (a) the British railway network and (b) the cruise industry mean that it's more advantageous to charter a fleet of coaches instead.
IIRC, Dr Beeching considered the value of such trains stuck in sidings most of the year. Looks good on a black-and-white DVD with Pullmans behind a Bullied into or out of Waterloo, or a Hornby layout though!
 

Snow1964

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2019
Messages
8,111
Location
West Wiltshire
IIRC, Dr Beeching considered the value of such trains stuck in sidings most of the year. Looks good on a black-and-white DVD with Pullmans behind a Bullied into or out of Waterloo, or a Hornby layout though!
Whilst true of stock kept for a few bank holidays and summer weekends, and thus used only about 20-50 days a year, as was common in 1950s.

We are talking about trains probably going to be used nearer 200 days per year. If you compare that to a commuter train used Monday-Thursday (excluding Christmas) that is also about 200 days per year. The difference is commuter trains might get in 2 morning and evening runs and be busy for 45 minutes per trip (3 hours total Mon-Thursday, or about 12 hours a week) but a boat train from Midlands or North would be used rather longer. So not convinced Beeching style sitting in sidings most of the year is appropriate calculation basis.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
25,043
Location
Bolton
Realistically the small amount of money on offer from cruise passengers is never going to be attractive to British train operators. Any market for people who only use the train once in a blue moon and who have loads of bags and want a long-haul direct train was pretty much ceeded decades ago. The bus industry can cater to that straightforwardly and at competitive prices. The rail industry lacks the rolling stock, space, network flexibility and willingness to prioritise these occasional users. Trains can sometimes be chartered but this is only really economical where the customer is happy to part with thousands (think VSOE etc) or where the pick ups are all quite concentrated (e.g. football charters such as the recent Newcastle - Wembley Stadium). If there are 500 people all local to Glasgow Central or Motherwell stations and all going on the same cruise I'm pretty sure someone will be happy to offer a charter. Otherwise...
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
25,043
Location
Bolton
Given how few large cruise ports the UK has as far as I know, I'd imagine flights to Southampton (Gatwick, Bournemouth?) would account for some people as well.
Southampton's service across England and Scotland was hit by the collapse of Flybe and the pandemic very badly, but as you say yes there is a reasonable choice again now, and Gatwick Airport isn't at all impossible.
 

trainophile

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2010
Messages
6,587
Location
Wherever I lay my hat
Well yesterday was fun, not. Returning from the Isle of Wight, on XC from Basingstoke to Birmingham NS. Originally booked in Standard, however on impulse we decided on Tuesday to hang the expense and book 1st Class, having enjoyed trolley offerings on our way down on the Tuesday including some very nice sandwiches. We usually go to our destination in 1st (when affordable), and come back in Standard, but being aware of the Bournemouth to Manchester crush loading especially on Fridays and weekends it seemed like a good idea. Cost £114 (for two, with railcards) as it was so close to the travel date. Managed to bag the only pair of airline seats left, the rest of the coach only had singles dotted about.

Boarded at Basingstoke, no seat reservation displays working but luckily no-one was sitting in ours. There were only four coaches, A, C, D and F, goodness knows what happened to B and E. Immediate ticket check, during which a couple of people got booted into Standard "if you can find a seat" - we hadn't seen what the situation was but even at that point it sounded dodgy. Asked if there was a trolley... No, not until Birmingham :rolleyes: . We had only brought a couple of snack bars and luckily a bottle of water each, and there was absolutely nothing on offer. We were told in no uncertain terms that refreshments were "complimentary", so obviously they didn't feel like complimenting us on that train.

Still, having eventually made a trip to the toilet at the end of coach A, I was extremely grateful we'd spent the money, as at least we had comfortable seats. The toilet vestibule must have had at least a dozen people crammed in, including a pram, at least one small child, and a chap sitting on the floor who had to stand up to let me through and back again. Couldn't access the toilet opening button but someone pressed it for me. I imagine Standard must have been an absolute nightmare. At Coventry there was a scrum in 1st, with people presumably on open tickets trying to find seats, and having to vacate the ones they had grabbed as the TM shouted down the coach the seat numbers that were reserved for people just boarding. I don't know where the unlucky evictees ended up, not acceptable to have to stand in a crush if you've paid for 1st Class.

It's not even the holiday season yet, or half term, and yet they still under-provide. Lesson learned there, in future we will book 1st Class when we make our original plans if XC are involved. I don't know how they justify the inadequate provision, they must know how bad it gets.

Incidentally, if you have a Standard ticket, but find seats in 1st and pay for an upgrade, is that seat then yours for the duration of your journey or might someone get on at the next stop who has reserved them? Similarly say someone had paid for an upgrade at Bournemouth and was sitting in our reserved from BSK seats? Would they be required to vacate them?
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,315
Location
Macclesfield
There were only four coaches, A, C, D and F, goodness knows what happened to B and E.
B is the unreserved coach on 5 car sets, to ensure that the seating plans match up for reservations, and E has remained vacant ever since the trains were new, in those far off days when the prospect of a potential sixth coach wasn't a complete impossibility.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
32,869
Boarded at Basingstoke, no seat reservation displays working but luckily no-one was sitting in ours. There were only four coaches, A, C, D and F, goodness knows what happened to B and E.
B is the coach that’s missing if comparing the XC 220 to a 221, so that the seat reservations work the same no matter what shows up.
Coach E was never used by XC, but it was assumed to be the letter reserved for a hypothetical lengthening to 6 car. The WCML 221s were eventually altered to use A-E, but it was a long time after their first use.
 

GuyGibsonVC

Member
Joined
29 Nov 2019
Messages
120
Location
Up North
Well yesterday was fun, not. Returning from the Isle of Wight, on XC from Basingstoke to Birmingham NS. Originally booked in Standard, however on impulse we decided on Tuesday to hang the expense and book 1st Class, having enjoyed trolley offerings on our way down on the Tuesday including some very nice sandwiches. We usually go to our destination in 1st (when affordable), and come back in Standard, but being aware of the Bournemouth to Manchester crush loading especially on Fridays and weekends it seemed like a good idea. Cost £114 (for two, with railcards) as it was so close to the travel date. Managed to bag the only pair of airline seats left, the rest of the coach only had singles dotted about.

Boarded at Basingstoke, no seat reservation displays working but luckily no-one was sitting in ours. There were only four coaches, A, C, D and F, goodness knows what happened to B and E. Immediate ticket check, during which a couple of people got booted into Standard "if you can find a seat" - we hadn't seen what the situation was but even at that point it sounded dodgy. Asked if there was a trolley... No, not until Birmingham :rolleyes: . We had only brought a couple of snack bars and luckily a bottle of water each, and there was absolutely nothing on offer. We were told in no uncertain terms that refreshments were "complimentary", so obviously they didn't feel like complimenting us on that train.

Still, having eventually made a trip to the toilet at the end of coach A, I was extremely grateful we'd spent the money, as at least we had comfortable seats. The toilet vestibule must have had at least a dozen people crammed in, including a pram, at least one small child, and a chap sitting on the floor who had to stand up to let me through and back again. Couldn't access the toilet opening button but someone pressed it for me. I imagine Standard must have been an absolute nightmare. At Coventry there was a scrum in 1st, with people presumably on open tickets trying to find seats, and having to vacate the ones they had grabbed as the TM shouted down the coach the seat numbers that were reserved for people just boarding. I don't know where the unlucky evictees ended up, not acceptable to have to stand in a crush if you've paid for 1st Class.

It's not even the holiday season yet, or half term, and yet they still under-provide. Lesson learned there, in future we will book 1st Class when we make our original plans if XC are involved. I don't know how they justify the inadequate provision, they must know how bad it gets.

Incidentally, if you have a Standard ticket, but find seats in 1st and pay for an upgrade, is that seat then yours for the duration of your journey or might someone get on at the next stop who has reserved them? Similarly say someone had paid for an upgrade at Bournemouth and was sitting in our reserved from BSK seats? Would they be required to vacate them?

I sat next to someone who had paid upwards of £250 for a First Class Ticket from somewhere in the South West to Edinburgh.

They got a little can of Coca Cola and some biscuits whilst people stood in the aisles. They weren’t a regular train user and I think they had images of First Class in their mind from various movies from over the years!

I was travelling for work, so didn’t pay anything from my own pocket but I did feel a tad bit sorry for them.

It felt like a reflection of the everything else that has been happening in society in the name of the bottom line.
 

Mainline421

Member
Joined
7 May 2013
Messages
677
Location
Aberystwyth
Incidentally, if you have a Standard ticket, but find seats in 1st and pay for an upgrade, is that seat then yours for the duration of your journey or might someone get on at the next stop who has reserved them? Similarly say someone had paid for an upgrade at Bournemouth and was sitting in our reserved from BSK seats? Would they be required to vacate them?
Upgrades don't come with reservations so no seat is guaranteed, but you can check the reservation displays.
 

Top