Cross-London ticket - Using non-interchange stations

[Ertpig]

I have a cross London off-peak ticket from Oxford to Mortlake. Journey planners suggest I should go take the tube from Paddington either Waterloo or Vauxhall. I know it would be quicker for me to take the District to East Putney and walk to Putney National Rail. East Putney is not listed as a valid exit/entry point for national rail tickets on the tube. I understand that I can exit the tube on a cross London ticket if it is on a reasonable route between two interchange points. However, Wimbledon would not be a reasonable interchange point for me if I am going to Mortlake as there is no permitted route for the ticket from Wimbledon to Mortlake via national rail and East Putney is not a zone 1 station. What is the likelihood that there would be issues for me going via East Putney?

Also I think that it would be fine going through the gateline at Putney National Rail since it would probably be seen as just breaking the journey - but I'm not entirely sure.

 

[Watershed]

I have a cross London off-peak ticket from Oxford to Mortlake. Journey planners suggest I should go take the tube from Paddington either Waterloo or Vauxhall. I know it would be quicker for me to take the District to East Putney and walk to Putney National Rail. East Putney is not listed as a valid exit/entry point for national rail tickets on the tube. I understand that I can exit the tube on a cross London ticket if it is on a reasonable route between two interchange points. However, Wimbledon would not be a reasonable interchange point for me if I am going to Mortlake as there is no permitted route for the ticket from Wimbledon to Mortlake via national rail and East Putney is not a zone 1 station. What is the likelihood that there would be issues for me going via East Putney?

Also I think that it would be fine going through the gateline at Putney National Rail since it would probably be seen as just breaking the journey - but I'm not entirely sure.

As you say, East Putney isn't a recognised cross-London National Rail <> Tube interchange station so the barriers are unlikely to accept your ticket. It's also tricky to justify it as being on a reasonable route to any recognised interchange station since travel via Wimbledon isn't permitted. Therefore you'd need to pay separately for the Tube if you wanted to take this route.

Whilst the ticket also wouldn't necessarily work the barriers at Putney, recommencing your journey there following a break of journey from Paddington would be permitted and so you should be allowed through after showing your ticket to barrier staff.

 

[hkstudent]

There’s no concept of permitted route on cross London transfer in LU aspect. In what LU CSA training guideline is: Maltese cross permits one journey on LU, with the journey ends when leaving any LU gateline.
When leaving at East Putney, it would just be treated as leaving the LU system early and not be allowed be back in the system.

LU barriers just only read whether the ticket is in the zones paid, or have any valid facilities to be in the system. Maltese Cross ticket is treated as a non zoned single ticket.
There’s no need of overthinking here. Just use the ticket and change at Putney.

Though I would doubt the time saving by using District Line, thinking about the slow running of Wimbledon branch and semi unreliable waiting time of Notting Hill gate section.

 

[redreni]

I appreciate cross-London transfers need not be restricted to zone 1, but I thought the facility to end a cross-London transfer early only applied in zone 1?

 

[miklcct]

I appreciate cross-London transfers need not be restricted to zone 1, but I thought the facility to end a cross-London transfer early only applied in zone 1?

Quote from an old post:

London Underground's own documents state that you may break a journey at any station within zone 1, at any station on a reasonable route between interchange stations and at any station on a National Rail route where a break of journey would be permitted under National Rail rules. You must purchase a new fare if you wish to recommence your journey on LU.

The LUL document stating this is available to download via this FOI request - page 24 contains the relevant information.

So it is OK to break the journey outside zone 1, provided that it is on a reasonable route between interchange stations.

 

[hkstudent]

I appreciate cross-London transfers need not be restricted to zone 1, but I thought the facility to end a cross-London transfer early only applied in zone 1?

There's no such rules, not even in guidebook for restricting to be zone 1 break only

 

[Ertpig]

There's no such rules, not even in guidebook for restricting to be zone 1 break only

This 2021 FOI request seems to state that its only Zone 1. https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transp.../foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1793-2122

It provides an extract from a tfl internal guidance book. I've quoted the relevant bit.

Although tickets are not available at intermediate stations, customers holding an NR ticket with Cross London availability are permitted to break their journey at:

- any LU station in Zone 1
- any LU station on a reasonable route between interchange points
- any station on a NR route where a break of journey would be permitted under NR rules

I doubt it's changed since 2021.

 

[hkstudent]

This 2021 FOI request seems to state that its only Zone 1. https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transp.../foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1793-2122

It provides an extract from a tfl internal guidance book. I've quoted the relevant bit.

I doubt it's changed since 2021.

In general, LU CSAs would usually use common sense to treat paper tickets "irregularities", and as mentioned, there are no permitted route concept on LU.

Reasonable route as quoted is always subject to personal interpretation, and in LU staff mind, Mortlake is a SWR station, so interchanging at a SWR station (Putney or Wimbledon or Richmond) would sound reasonable. LU staff don't read permitted route guide of NR, it's more on reasonings.

Meanwhile, the reason why no routes been generated on journey planner is that: not Wimbledon nor Putney nor Richmond have fixed link for LU connections.

 

[david1212]

Maltese cross permits one journey on LU, with the journey ends when leaving any LU gateline.

Interesting .....many years ago, I can't recall the source now, possibly the fares and routing guru Barry Doe, I was told that in practice, which may be contrary to the regulations, a ticket with a Maltese Cross encoded on the magnetic strip was simply treated by TfL as a Zone 1 single ticket. I enquired because part of the underground was closed so I was looking at overall with walking and running trains the quickest cross-London transfer. My tickets were accepted by the gatelines I used. Now the barriers may be 'smarter' so not permit entry at any Zone 1 station.

On another occasion again many years ago when part of the underground was closed the quickest transfer would have been to leave the underground then walk to another station mid-route. The advice was that re-entry would be at the discretion of the gateline staff so the safe option was to keep within the operating underground. Travelling in Zone 2 would not matter so long as my entry and exit was at a zone 1 or zone 1/2 boundary station.

 

[paul1609]

Interesting .....many years ago, I can't recall the source now, possibly the fares and routing guru Barry Doe, I was told that in practice, which may be contrary to the regulations, a ticket with a Maltese Cross encoded on the magnetic strip was simply treated by TfL as a Zone 1 single ticket. I enquired because part of the underground was closed so I was looking at overall with walking and running trains the quickest cross-London transfer. My tickets were accepted by the gatelines I used. Now the barriers may be 'smarter' so not permit entry at any Zone 1 station.

On another occasion again many years ago when part of the underground was closed the quickest transfer would have been to leave the underground then walk to another station mid-route. The advice was that re-entry would be at the discretion of the gateline staff so the safe option was to keep within the operating underground. Travelling in Zone 2 would not matter so long as my entry and exit was at a zone 1 or zone 1/2 boundary station.

Thats not been true in recent years, Kent to Essex +not hs1 tickets have been valid via Stratford since the Jubilee Line opened.

 

[redreni]

In general, LU CSAs would usually use common sense to treat paper tickets "irregularities", and as mentioned, there are no permitted route concept on LU.

Reasonable route as quoted is always subject to personal interpretation, and in LU staff mind, Mortlake is a SWR station, so interchanging at a SWR station (Putney or Wimbledon or Richmond) would sound reasonable. LU staff don't read permitted route guide of NR, it's more on reasonings.

Meanwhile, the reason why no routes been generated on journey planner is that: not Wimbledon nor Putney nor Richmond have fixed link for LU connections.

But don't they have a list of interchange points? I'm not sure if Putney is on it. I assume not given Watershed's post above.

It doesn't say "on a reasonable route to the destination on the ticket". It says "on a reasonable route to an interchange point" which, afaik, Putney is neither a recognised interchange point nor on a reasonable route to one. Except maybe Wimbledon - I'm not convinced it's necessarily relevant to them that NR doesn't allow travel via Wimbledon on that particular ticket given LU has no rules on the subject.

Hopefully staff would apply some common sense here, though, as you say.