CrossCountry's Driver Shortage

[duffield]

And all the reputational damage will switch to GBR the day that it is established (or at least absorbs each TOC).

I'm not sure about that. A lot of people still think a Richard Branson run Virgin provides the service on the WCML. They will still be blaming Cross Country for the poor service for many years after it's absorbed into GBR. I understand that the Cross Country name/brand may be an Aviva trademark but I expect the government will arrange to keep using it under GBR at least for the short term and maybe permanently so it's likely that most passengers won't notice the difference at least initially. I don't think many passengers could tell you if their current service is operated directly by the DfT or not.

Edit: Arriva, (not Aviva of course) does not own the CrossCountry trademark, the government does (see post 394/395 below).

 

[PG]

I don't think many passengers could tell you if their current service is operated directly by the DfT or not.

Which probably suits many inside the DfT ideally!

 

[1D54]

05:19 New Street - Stansted this morning cancelled due to shortage of train crew.

 

[domcoop7]

There was an article today (I can't recall which paper, though so I can't link to it) which whilst badly written and making little grammatical sense did confirm that the government plan is to keep TOCs with their TOC branding and then move them to GB Railways branding only once a certain "standard" has been reached. (Of course that in itself makes little sense because the TOCs and GB Railways will - once the legislation comes through - be one and the same entity anyway).

As for the Cross Country trademark, it is not owned by Arriva, but by the Secretary of State for Transport having been registered as a trade mark since 12th February 1936! under the name "Cross Country", 9th November 1995 as "CrossCountry Journeycare" and 8th April 2010 for the CrossCountry name and the 'X' logo.

This link is quite interesting to look at to see what names, logos and trademarks they've kept hold of https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-t...n=1&page=4&id=266494&app=0&mark=UK00000565753

 

[duffield]

So much for Google's Gemini AI, which confidently asserts that:

The trademark for "CrossCountry" in the UK is owned by Arriva UK Trains, which is part of the Arriva Group.

 

[TravelDream]

Plenty of cancellations again today.

On the Birmingham to Cardiff segment, again no mention of the previous or next XC service which is some improvement in their customer service and messaging.
Instead they are not telling people to take the next XC to Bristol Parkway and connect to GWR or the next TFW from Cheltenham/ Gloucester.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

There was an article today (I can't recall which paper, though so I can't link to it) which whilst badly written and making little grammatical sense did confirm that the government plan is to keep TOCs with their TOC branding and then move them to GB Railways branding only once a certain "standard" has been reached. (Of course that in itself makes little sense because the TOCs and GB Railways will - once the legislation comes through - be one and the same entity anyway).

As for the Cross Country trademark, it is not owned by Arriva, but by the Secretary of State for Transport having been registered as a trade mark since 12th February 1936! under the name "Cross Country", 9th November 1995 as "CrossCountry Journeycare" and 8th April 2010 for the CrossCountry name and the 'X' logo.

This link is quite interesting to look at to see what names, logos and trademarks they've kept hold of https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-t...n=1&page=4&id=266494&app=0&mark=UK00000565753

So we'll have northern for many years to come... Perhaps forever lol

 

[father_jack]

On Sunday 25th May, there will be disruption to our services between Birmingham New St and Cardiff as well as between Birmingham New St and Bournemouth.

We are sorry for any inconvenience caused to your journey. Please plan and check before you travel: crosscountrytrains.co.uk/service-updates

But no reference to the real reason.

 

[occone]

All XC routes need to have another operator run alongside them so there's some degree of choice/backup. Bristol to Birmingham for example is XC only, you can get GWR to Cheltenham but then you're stuffed.

If there was some choice I'd happily leave XC to remain dreadful. Customers always come last.

Tangent: it could be a good opportunity for coach companies to copy XC routes, I'd be happy to take a *quality* coach, the issue is coaches generally are lower market.

 

[GordonT]

Tangent: it could be a good opportunity for coach companies to copy XC routes

Good idea. A coach service with no cancellations would arguably be a better prospect than a XC timetable which at certain times degenerates into a work of fiction.

 

[Class 170101]

All XC routes need to have another operator run alongside them so there's some degree of choice/backup. Bristol to Birmingham for example is XC only, you can get GWR to Cheltenham but then you're stuffed.

How about GWR to Worcester Foregate Street and West Midlands from there to New Street?

Count yourself lucky I cannot think of any options between Birmingham and Derby

 

[dk1]

All XC routes need to have another operator run alongside them so there's some degree of choice/backup. Bristol to Birmingham for example is XC only, you can get GWR to Cheltenham but then you're stuffed.

If there was some choice I'd happily leave XC to remain dreadful. Customers always come last.

Tangent: it could be a good opportunity for coach companies to copy XC routes, I'd be happy to take a *quality* coach, the issue is coaches generally are lower market.

Bristol-Birmingham is a hangover of Virgin Trains moderation of competition like so many of their routes back in the day.

 

[duffield]

How about GWR to Worcester Foregate Street and West Midlands from there to New Street?

Count yourself lucky I cannot think of any options between Birmingham and Derby

Exactly

Birmingham to Derby:
Using XC - direct - 40 minutes approx
Shortest alternative avoiding XC and using EMR and WMR - Change at Stoke and Stafford - 2hrs 20 minutes approx

And that's if your ticket allows it. I'm guessing it's not a "permitted route"!

A relatively small adjustment would be to transfer the Nottingham to Birmingham service to EMR along with a suitable number of 170s and some willing train crew, and also train up some existing EMR drivers for Derby to Birmingham. Of course this doesn't magic up extra drivers in total but the EMR drivers are a different pool so with two different driver pools with different bases and companies on this route you might get some sort of service improvement. There's probably all sorts of contractual and other reasons why this is "impossible" though.

Of course, it's arguable as to whether this sort of tinkering has any point ahead of the coming of GBR which potential changes things again. But it might be preferable to leaving the situation as is for (say) another three years.

 

[whoosh]

Probably makes a good case, from a GBR viewpoint, to leave XC till last...

If there becomes an 'Intercity' identity, I wouldn't have Cross Country anywhere near it!

 

[GoneSouth]

Plenty of cancellations again today.

On the Birmingham to Cardiff segment, again no mention of the previous or next XC service which is some improvement in their customer service and messaging.
Instead they are not telling people to take the next XC to Bristol Parkway and connect to GWR or the next TFW from Cheltenham/ Gloucester.

Small wins

If there becomes an 'Intercity' identity, I wouldn't have Cross Country anywhere near it!

To be fair their NE to SW is regular and pretty reliable considering the distances it runs. It just desperately needs extra capacity in the X between Reading/Bristol and Manchester/Leeds.

Years ago many of the trains were principal stations only, skipping smaller places like Chesterfield, Tamworth and Burton

 

[RailRider93]

Had the misfortune of travelling on the Bournemouth to Manchester Cross Country route from Basingstoke twice recently and both were horrible journeys. I don’t understand how such a busy and long service can be so short formed. Whenever I see it, it’s always 5 coaches. I’ve never seen it or been on it where it’s been more. Majority of the journey people were stood in the walkways and so many people in incorrect seats.
Next time I’d rather go to London and go Avanti and pay the bit extra. Doesn’t surprise me that Cross Country has such low customer satisfaction.

 

[TheGuy77]

XC's website seems to mention that 'there will be disruption' on Sunday 1 June, but it doesn't specify what sort (I assume a driver shortage for it also being Sunday). At this point they should just stop selling Sunday tickets (or implement a reduced Sunday service into their timetable at the very least!)

 

[dk1]

XC's website seems to mention that 'there will be disruption' on Sunday 1 June, but it doesn't specify what sort (I assume train cancellations for it also being Sunday). At this point they should just stop selling Sunday tickets (or implement a reduced Sunday service into their timetable at the very least!)

I don’t think any operator can legally stop selling tickets.

 

[GoneSouth]

I don’t think any operator can legally stop selling tickets.

And rightly so. People rely on these services for all kinds of reasons these days. I use (or at least try to use) this service on Sundays and find life is becoming more frustrating and difficult. I don’t know what the answer is but giving up on people who can’t travel any other way than by train is not acceptable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

What really winds me up is the irritating tone of the messages.

We would like to give you the opportunity to plan ahead.

if you do decide to travel…

At this stage there is no opportunity for many to plan ahead if there are 3-4 hour gaps in service, and they talk about travel with them being a choice we all make and it doesn’t really matter if we just delay for a day.

Believe me XC, travelling with you is NOT A CHOICE I WOULD MAKE, it’s stressful, uncomfortable and expensive and I’ve had enough.

 

[dk1]

And rightly so. People rely on these services for all kinds of reasons these days. I use (or at least try to use) this service on Sundays and find life is becoming more frustrating and difficult. I don’t know what the answer is but giving up on people who can’t travel any other way than by train is not acceptable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

What really winds me up is the irritating tone of the messages.

We would like to give you the opportunity to plan ahead.

if you do decide to travel…

At this stage there is no opportunity for many to plan ahead if there are 3-4 hour gaps in service, and they talk about travel with them being a choice we all make and it doesn’t really matter if we just delay for a day.

Believe me XC, travelling with you is NOT A CHOICE I WOULD MAKE, it’s stressful, uncomfortable and expensive and I’ve had enough.

Oh I don’t mind travelling with them but then I do carefully select what trains I use on the busiest routes and can be very flexible. If it’s the quickest route then I use it even if I have to stand for a certain amount of time.

The short notice is always going to happen if that’s when the Sunday drivers roster is compiled and that’s the agreement that they can make themselves not available to work by.

 

[Jimini]

XC's website seems to mention that 'there will be disruption' on Sunday 1 June, but it doesn't specify what sort (I assume train cancellations for it also being Sunday). At this point they should just stop selling Sunday tickets (or implement a reduced Sunday service into their timetable at the very least!)

Brum <> Stansted now also added to the disruption list.

A shortage of train drivers between between Birmingham New Street and Cardiff Central / Stansted Airport / Bournemouth means that fewer trains will be able to run on Sunday 1 June. As a result of this, trains running on this route may be cancelled.

Disruption is expected all day on Sunday 1 June.

It is recommended that you check before you travel, as other routes may be affected.

Looking forward to my journey from Coventry to Reading late tomorrow arvo! Bets on single sets running round to compound the cancellation fun and games? Or even better, the ultimate kick in the teeth with a set being towed along behind but locked out of use?

 

[fodphil]

Whilst not drivers, RMT on XC have announced an overtime and RDW ban from the 9th June to 25th October.

 

[TheGuy77]

Anybody want to make any bets on how many XC cancellations there will be tomorrow? I reckon 40 at the very least .

 

[TravelDream]

Anybody want to make any bets on how many XC cancellations there will be tomorrow? I reckon 40 at the very least .

That'd be a standard Sunday.

Already all but the 1145 and 1345 from Cardiff have been cancelled. What are the chances they run?

 

[TheGuy77]

That'd be a standard Sunday.

Already all but the 1145 and 1345 from Cardiff have been cancelled. What are the chances they run?

Do you know where you get that info from? The XC website rather unhelpfully fails to mention this (wonder what it will be like tomorrow on one of the only Cardiff-Notts services being 2-car...)

 

[Peterthegreat]

Going through the RTT website for tomorrow shows around 60 Cross Country services with no unit allocation.
Not foolproof but I bet it's not far out

 

[GoneSouth]

That'd be a standard Sunday.

Already all but the 1145 and 1345 from Cardiff have been cancelled. What are the chances they run?

Pathetic as ever. Yet nobody is doing anything about it. XC just glibly say travel some other time then, they’re on a different planet to those of us that need to use their service

Anybody got any ideas about action we can take as long suffering customers of this shower? Writing to your MP is not going to get results or publicity. What’s the next step, any ideas?

 

[dk1]

Pathetic as ever. Yet nobody is doing anything about it. XC just glibly say travel some other time then, they’re on a different planet to those of us that need to use their service

Anybody got any ideas about action we can take as long suffering customers of this shower? Writing to your MP is not going to get results or publicity. What’s the next step, any ideas?

What can XC do about it glibly or not?

 

[1D54]

Going through the RTT website for tomorrow shows around 60 Cross Country services with no unit allocation.
Not foolproof but I bet it's not far out

Only one of those is on the Birmingham - Stansted route (16:50) and i was expecting it to be a lot worse than that after the announcement yesterday.

 

[GordonT]

Pathetic as ever. Yet nobody is doing anything about it. XC just glibly say travel some other time then, they’re on a different planet to those of us that need to use their service

Anybody got any ideas about action we can take as long suffering customers of this shower? Writing to your MP is not going to get results or publicity. What’s the next step, any ideas?

Unfortunately XC cannot simply go into their back shop and lift additional drivers off hooks. Neither can any prospective alternative train operators.