Crossrail opening delayed (opening date not yet known)

[hwl]

That is also true and probably played a significant part.

Many of the senior Crossrail team had spent time doing the JLE hence the invincible we can do it type attitude.

The reality was they made the 2000 deadline by ditching the planned new signalling system and everything ended up getting resignalled 11 years later.

This not being a sensible option on Crossrail as there are delays on other critical paths so pushing on is key.

In the end they didn't learn a key lesson from JLE - leave enough time for system integration

 

[matt_world2004]

Almost a year overdue, the highly anticipated Crossrail train service from central London to Heathrow Airport (LHR) is expected to finally begin operations in March 2020. This section of the huge infrastructure project was originally scheduled to operate by May 2019.

Once operating, the new ‘Elizabeth line’ will see six 1,500-person capacity trains per hour run from popular London locations like Bond Street, Liverpool Street and Canary Wharf through to Heathrow Airport — significantly quicker than existing tube services.

Four of the six trains per hour will operate to Terminals 2/3 and 4, with the other two operating to Terminals 2/3 and 5. Crossrail journeys from Heathrow Airport to Zone 1 (or vice versa) will cost £12.10 each way, which is more than twice the cost of the existing — though much slower — Piccadilly line, according to the Evening Standard. The convenient but expensive Heathrow Express will continue to operate, though has been reducing its ticket prices in anticipation of the increased competition next year

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/crossrail-services-to-lhr-2020/
I am sceptical that the 6tph service will run to Heathrow 4 probably in March 2020.

 

[side effect]

Can someone help me out. My son has just registered and wants to post but it says he dosent have sufficient privileges. Its years since I joined so cant remember what it means.

Many thanks

 

[swt_passenger]

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/crossrail-services-to-lhr-2020/
I am sceptical that the 6tph service will run to Heathrow 4 probably in March 2020.

Poor article. I think he’s missed that the initial Heathrow trains will only be running from Paddington HL?

 

[samuelmorris]

Can someone help me out. My son has just registered and wants to post but it says he dosent have sufficient privileges. Its years since I joined so cant remember what it means.

Many thanks

Is he trying to post a new thread or just reply? New threads, links and attachments are probably disabled for brand-new users, so they can prove they aren't bot accounts

 

[kevin_roche]

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/crossrail-services-to-lhr-2020/
I am sceptical that the 6tph service will run to Heathrow 4 probably in March 2020.

I believe the plan is that the current Hayes & Harlington service will go all the way to Heathrow and the current Heathrow service will be 345 trains.

 

[side effect]

Is he trying to post a new thread or just reply? New threads, links and attachments are probably disabled for brand-new users, so they can prove they aren't bot accounts

Ok. He just wanted to see how it worked. As we spoke he has just noticed his laptop screen has gone blank.

 

[matt_world2004]

I believe the plan is that the current Hayes & Harlington service will go all the way to Heathrow and the current Heathrow service will be 345 trains.

I believe that to be the case too, can't see more than 4tph going Heathrow without the core.

 

[markymark2000]

Which way are the points at Whitechapel? Would it be possible for trains to drop off at Whitechapel (westbound) and then cross over to the eastbound track to return? Also is Crossrail constructed so that at Whitechapel, you could cross from the westbound to Eastbound track to then run the 'wrong way' to Liverpool Street, terminate, switch ends and return eastbound.

I know this won't be suitable for the Stratford line but it could be a very, very soft start for the Abbey Wood branch.

I think the issue is they are trying to open too much at once. This project is too big to open straight through to Paddington on day 1. Let's be honest. All tube lines were built in sections, even the JLE was opened in smaller phases. If Whitechapel points are built so that you can run to Whitechapel or Liverpool Street, I would be focussing as many staff as possible onto the stations which could open earlier and need the least work doing. Once part of the project is open, people are more patient. Above all else, if you can run some trains into Whitechapel, it can kickstart the process of reducing overcrowding on other lines and if the Shenfield services moved in as well (capacity dependant), then it frees up paths for Greater Anglia so more improvements can be made elsewhere on the rail network.

 

[JonathanH]

Would it be possible for trains to drop off at Whitechapel (westbound) and then cross over to the eastbound track to return?

Isn't Whitechapel the second furthest station from completion (after Bond Street) therefore not really available for an early service introduction.

 

[markymark2000]

Isn't Whitechapel the second furthest station from completion (after Bond Street) therefore not really available for an early service introduction.

Liverpool Street it would be then but it's a lot of wrong track running then from Whitechapel.

 

[JonathanH]

Liverpool Street it would be then but it's a lot of wrong track running then from Whitechapel.

Isn't there also the problem that Whitechapel (and Bond Street) needs to be available for emergency access in order for trains to pass through so the idea of running to Liverpool Street isn't possible.

 

[markymark2000]

Isn't there also the problem that Whitechapel (and Bond Street) needs to be available for emergency access in order for trains to pass through so the idea of running to Liverpool Street isn't possible.

Focus all staff on Whitechapel then to get it done?

Is Paddington LL near complete? As that would be another logical short step but then the trains need to terminate, reverse into the siding, forward into the westbound platform and then reverse to depart because of the way the points are.

 

[matt_world2004]

Focus all staff on Whitechapel then to get it done?

Is Paddington LL near complete? As that would be another logical short step but then the trains need to terminate, reverse into the siding, forward into the westbound platform and then reverse to depart because of the way the points are.

Royal Oak portal is still under possession and test trains enter via Stratford

 

[markymark2000]

Royal Oak portal is still under possession and test trains enter via Stratford

I thought so. If there was any potential for trains to run, it would have to be from the east. (Shenfield or Abbey Wood).

 

[hwl]

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/crossrail-services-to-lhr-2020/
I am sceptical that the 6tph service will run to Heathrow 4 probably in March 2020.

it says begin not final service level...

Begin would include swapping the 360s to 345s.

 

[JN114]

Test trains have definitely been running off Old Oak into the sewer during engineering works.

 

[Chris M]

In terms of track layout, Carto.metro shows a facing crossover immediately west of Whitechapel and then nothing until a trailing crossover midway between Farringdon and TCR. There is no way that Liverpool Street could be used as a reversing point for any meaningful level of service.
When finished, Whitechapel could probably turn around the service from one branch, especially if double manning stepping back was used. It isn't finished though, so that's not an option. The last I heard, the implication was that Whitechapel would be useable as an emergency evacuation point, but Bond Street wouldn't.
East of Whitechapel, the there are no crossovers until Custom House (facing and trailing west of the platforms, trailing east of them), meaning that Canary Wharf cannot be used as a terminus either - which is a shame as that's a significant traffic destination.

Even when it does get up and running, service recovery is going to be very difficult with so few options for short-tripping.

 

[kevin_roche]

Reading through the written reports by Mark Wild made to TfL and the London Assembly Transport Committee, I don't think a partial service on the line to Abbey Wood can be done easily.

One issue is that the CBTC signalling system on the Central Core and out to Abbey Wood has not finished it's testing cycle, and another issue is the automatic turnback capability is limited to certain places on the line. I don't know if it could be done immediately west of Whitechapel or not.

Currently the CBTC software being used in the central section is version PD+10. This has already been found to have bugs which need to be fixed.

The plan following Dynamic Testing is to do Trial Running. This will involve testing one or more days of 12tph from Abbey Wood to Paddington and back without passengers.
To do this the signalling system needs to have the next version (PD+11) of the CBTC software.

I get the impression that although this version of the software is expected to be suitable for Trial Running it is expected that there will be some changes required for the final version.

It seems that the plan is for Trial Running to take place with the CBTC signalling running subsiduary with the ETCS software (in Level 0?) on the trains.

Following Trial Running there will be some operational testing with trial passengers. This will be used to test that other parts of the stations information systems, gatelines, ventilation etc work with the signalling as expected.

In addition to all that at some point testing must take place of the Transitions from GEML (TCMS) to/from Crossrail Core, GWML (TCMS) to/from Crossrail Core and GWML (TCMS) to/from Heathrow Tunnels (ECTS level 2). This has been a source of difficulty because of the need to get posessions of the GEML, GWML and Heathrow Tunnels. I don't know yet when this is planned to happen, but Mark Wild has said that possesions for this have now been agreed with Network Rail.

I would also assume that there will be a need to test Trial Running of Abbey Wood trains and Shenfield trains together at some point before Stage 4 can begin. I get the impression that they might like to do this before Stage 3 opens.

Can anyone else shed light on these plans? Are my assumptions correct?

Edited to fix my mistake with the acronyms for lines.

 

[PG]

In addition to all that at some point testing must take place of the Transitions from ECML (TCMS) to/from Crossrail Core, WCML (TCMS) to/from Crossrail Core and WCML (TCMS) to/from Heathrow Tunnels (ECTS level 2). This has been a source of difficulty because of the need to get posessions of the ECML, WCML and Heathrow Tunnels. I don't know yet when this is planned to happen, but Mark Wild has said that possesions for this have now been agreed with Network Rail.

I confess not to have read the entire thread so I could well be ignorant of the facts.

I'm confused by the references above to ECML and WCML which, to me anyway, refer to the railway lines going from Kings Cross to Edinburgh and Euston to Glasgow respectively.

Could someone explain what (and where) they connect with crossrail? Thanks

 

[Bald Rick]

I confess not to have read the entire thread so I could well be ignorant of the facts.

I'm confused by the references above to ECML and WCML which, to me anyway, refer to the railway lines going from Kings Cross to Edinburgh and Euston to Glasgow respectively.

Could someone explain what (and where) they connect with crossrail? Thanks

I suspect ECML = GEML, and WCML = GWML.

There are no direct connections from the ECML or WCML to Crossrail.

 

[PG]

I suspect ECML = GEML, and WCML = GWML.

There are no direct connections from the ECML or WCML to Crossrail.

Thanks for the clarification, that's more what I'd expect

 

[samuelmorris]

Thanks for the clarification, that's more what I'd expect

Yes I suspect that's what was meant, I made the same mistake myself in one of my posts but caught and edited it before I submitted the reply. Easily done!

 

[kevin_roche]

I suspect ECML = GEML, and WCML = GWML.

There are no direct connections from the ECML or WCML to Crossrail.

Apologies. I got the initals wrong. I will fix the original post.

 

[flitwickbeds]

Some TfL Rail trains have sprung up in RTT with origins Maidenhead and Reading

E.g this one
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F05834/2019-11-25/detailed

Train planning mistake or testing of new routes?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Train planning mistake or testing of new routes?

Is that just substituting a TfL 345 for a GWR 387?

At Reading, the stoppers are indicated with an Ealing Broadway destination. Presumably that continues when TfL take over at least half the stoppers from outside of Hayes.

 

[iphone76]

Some TfL Rail trains have sprung up in RTT with origins Maidenhead and Reading

E.g this one
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F05834/2019-11-25/detailed

Train planning mistake or testing of new routes?

Not a mistake. From Monday 25th November there will be a soft launch of the Reading service . Should be six services per day on weekdays and eight on Saturdays.

They will be GWR services (despite what RTT says), but operated using TfL Rail drivers and 345s.

 

[matt_world2004]

Not a mistake. From Monday 25th November there will be a soft launch of the Reading service . Should be six services per day on weekdays and eight on Saturdays.

They will be GWR services (despite what RTT says), but operated using TfL Rail drivers and 345s.

I wonder what would happen if you were to use your staff pass/freedom pass on these

 

[iphone76]

I wonder what would happen if you were to use your staff pass/freedom pass on these

I shall find out on the 25th November. Check the Fares dispute section that evening. LOL

 

[matt_world2004]

I shall find out on the 25th November. Check the Fares dispute section that evening. LOL

Thing is even if someone is aware they could quite easily become confused at Southall and beyond where it wouldn't be obvious that the train is a GwR one.