Crossrail opening delayed until sometime between October 2020 and March 2021

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by gavin, 31 Aug 2018.

  1. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

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    Oh gosh! Who's paying to fix all that? If it's Canary Wharf who are responsible, I hope they are the ones paying to fix it?
     
  2. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    They are trying but I suspect head butting a brick wall in reality to recoup any of that. With CW I suspect a useful stalemate of no late start to services. Effectively TfL still loses just not as badly.
     
  3. Meole

    Meole Member

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    At least Crossrail has recruited and trained up 500 full time drivers all ready to go when able.
     
  4. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    From the construction world, these figures sound implausible. The specification of the station would have been fully agreed, and construction and fitout overseen in considerable detail, by Crossrail engineers, who would have also had to do the final signoff.

    Given that Crossrail are having to pay themselves rather than Canary Wharf, my hunch is they changed the spec along the way after construction was done - a not unknown issue on major long term projects.

    I suspect it's an opening shot in any claim that Canary Wharf may have in return against Crossrail for the late opening, including the poor retail rents they will be getting at present due to low footfall (though at least some of the units seem surprisingly busy, and the restaurant on the top floor at the west end seems to have been a considerable success).
     
  5. jellybaby

    jellybaby Member

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    There is an empty floor of retail.
     
  6. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    I've just had a look at the Canary Wharf Contractors website. They built the station building, along with most of the rest of Canary Wharf over time, and are one of the most professional contractors around. Interestingly they say about the station :

    https://group.canarywharf.com/construction/current-projects/canary-wharf-crossrail-station/

    So it states CWC did the building parts, completed a good while ago, while Crossrail themselves are responsible for all the railway and station equipment items installed in more recent years.
     
  7. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    Some more news...

    https://www.building.co.uk/news/cro...his-year-tfl-documents-reveal/5099560.article

    For the original papers:

    http://content.tfl.gov.uk/board-20190522-agenda-and-papers.pdf

    See section 6

    There are also some figures on income from TfL Rail in section 7.
     
    Last edited: 22 May 2019
  8. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    If the specification of the escalators and fire alarms wasn't fully agreed then it must also have been Crossrail's fault.

    It may be that Crossrail thought "Oh well, just replace them when we have finalised the specs." In that case it is wrong for them to blame Canary Wharf Contractors for doing what they thought was right at the time.
     
    Last edited: 22 May 2019
  9. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    Reading the Standard article :

    It doesn't say that CWC put in anything not agreed, it just says that they are now spending more Crossrail money on it. Which points to either Crossrail not specifying/supervising/signing it off properly in the first place, Crossrail changing their mind afterwards, or the regulations and standards changing after it was constructed.

    However, the way it was worded comes over to the casual reader (and the MPs) as being a CWC build error that Crossrail are having to correct at their own expense. Which is disappointing, because I thought Mark Wild was free of the obfuscation and clever-dick reporting style of his predecessors.
     
  10. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    I think he is being integrated into the collective.
     
  11. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    All covered in detail at the PAC hearing where Mark first brought it into the open.
    The basic situation with Canary Wharf is that CWG wanted the station complete 3 years earlier than all the others and there for started far earlier before there was a full specification. Mark stated to the PAC hearing that Crossrail analysis (pre his time) was that it was cheaper to sort post completion than to instruct changes (which might have left them liable to delays to the "shopping centre" above).
     
  12. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    That in itself sounds surprising. I watched the construction of Canary Wharf Crossrail from day one. It took them years (possibly why CWC wanted to start early rather than leave it to the last second). There was enormous dewatering of the dock and then excavations way down into the bedrock, before building work even started. The M&E elements (escalators and fire protection systems) only get installed at the end. How could Crossrail not have specified the requirements for these by the time they were installed, or even ordered?

    If Mark Wild is saying Crossrail's professional analysis at the time was it was cheaper for them to sort post structural completion, how can it be that he is now complaining about the costs to sort it post structural completion ...?
     
  13. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    MW said they didn't have the final station fit out spec finished till 2015 just as CW was "completed".

    Ie. CR should have got their act sorted as regards a final station fit out spec far earlier (but will have been waiting for train info for PEDs etc.)
     
  14. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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  15. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Some nice images there, give you a good feel of what the place will look like in (hopefully!) a couple of years' time...
     
  16. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

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    I see the top set of images on that page are of Abbey Wood station, and the photos look very nice, focusing on the wooden ceiling inside the station.

    What the photos don't tell you is that many locals are (rightly IMO) up in arms: Partly because the lifts to the station entrance keep constantly breaking down. And partly because the original submitted plans for the station showed a large number of trees being planted on either side of the station. And the station is long-since completed, as is the area South of the station where many of the trees were going. But the trees are nowhere to be seen: instead there are two large expanses of concrete, which look a lot less pleasant. Not only that but, just outside the area captured by the main Crossrail photo of the station are two newly built and completely inadequate bus shelters, both perched high on a the flyover, so very exposed to the elements, but offering very little protection - and both looking rather less generous than the impression given in the initial photos of what was to be built (though possibly Crossrail aren't to blame for that one - not sure if that was down to Council decisions).

    Then there's an issue of full platform length canopies that actually offer very little protection from rain etc., and a complete lack of anywhere warm to wait for trains when the weather is cold.

    Possibly the pictures give a better impression than is actually the case if you need to use the station.
     
  17. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Lifts really ought to be subject to an availability metric like the train services themselves - the system is near-inaccessible to the disabled without them in a lot of cases and some are indeed very unreliable.
     
  18. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    The monthly report from Mark Wild is now on the TfL website:
    http://content.tfl.gov.uk/florence-eshalomi-monthly-update-june-19.pdf

    It has some news on the progress with testing trains
     
  19. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    50m clearance with manual driver control must be quite exciting!
     
  20. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    They are, on London Underground, with extra importance given to lifts providing step-free access.

    I should hope that either Network Rail or MTR Crossrail will be subject to similar monitoring.
     
  21. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Is this publicly accessible data? The worst offenders I can recall were on London underground, not the national rail network...
     
  22. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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  23. mackeral1234

    mackeral1234 Member

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    Don’t get excited 50m = 50miles
     
  24. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    Some news on the plans for upgrading the stations in the western overground parts of the line.

    https://www.building.co.uk/news/pla...ons-to-be-revealed-next-month/5100130.article

     
  25. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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  26. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Carillion were the original contractors...
     
  27. reddragon

    reddragon Member

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    Someone told me at RAIL live today that the escalators at Canary Wharf are unusable and need substantial work.

    Apparently, if the controller pushes an emergency stop button then ALL of the escalators stop and you can't evacuate the station. A major rewire is said to be needed to enable them to be controlled to manage safe station egress.
     
  28. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Given they've got another 16 months to fix that as a minimum though, that shouldn't be too much an issue should it? It's laughable that it's happened but it doesn't seem an insurmountable problem.
     
  29. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    Canary Wharf was fitted out by the private sector developers several years ago. Not surprisingly they did not have the 2019 registrations to work from! It's been public knowledge for some time that it needs major work.
     
  30. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Yeah but wiring all the escalators to the same emergency stop control? Surely not doing that would be standard practice for railway stations, if not elsewhere too?
     

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