Crossrail - Through Running confirmed for November

[Goldfish62]

I wonder if people will resort to the timetable?

Highly unlikely I'd have thought. Some of the extremities of the Underground operate at lower frequencies and people just turn up (except of course for the Amersham and Chesham lines on the Met).

 

[ijmad]

Highly unlikely I'd have thought. Some of the extremities of the Underground operate at lower frequencies and people just turn up (except of course for the Amersham and Chesham lines on the Met).

Personally I'd 'turn up and go' for 4tph or above, but if I was planning on going to Iver or Taplow or Reading (not starting at Paddington that is, where I'd get a fast GWR service), I'd check the timetable. When Heathrow has 6tph that's turn up and go too, although for T5, unless you know about the trick where you change to the HeX you'd probably want to check the timetable for 2tph to there as well.

 

[Goldfish62]

Personally I'd 'turn up and go' for 4tph or above, but if I was planning on going to Iver or Taplow or Reading (not starting at Paddington that is, where I'd get a fast GWR service). When Heathrow has 6tph that's turn up and go too, although for T5, unless you know about the trick where you change to the HeX you'd probably want to check the timetable for 2tph to there as well.

Agreed, but I think the OP was wondering whether the minor frequency decrease overall from Abbey Wood would cause passengers to refer to the timetable.

 

[camflyer]

Great to see trains every 3-4 mins instead of 5 between Paddington and Whitechapel, just a shame the Abbey Wood branch is now 7-8 minutes. But it's the same frequency as between New Cross Gate and Sydenham on London Overground and it's still turn up and go.

I would think a frequency of 7-8 mins is still "turn up an go" for most people given that the average wait time would be 3-4 mins. The rest of the country would be amazed with that kind of service.

Looking forward to trying the through running to Heathrow as the change at Paddington was a pain.

 

[43066]

The rest of the country would be amazed with that kind of service.

I suppose in London people will inevitably compare XR to the tube, where 7-8 mins is very pedestrian (at least for most of it). I agree that’s a little unfair to the Abbey Wood branch which is an offshoot, especially when you consider how long the same journeys would have taken pre opening!

 

[matt_world2004]

Tfl makes the assumption that turn up and go is with frequencies shorter than 12 minutes

 

[ijmad]

Tfl makes the assumption that turn up and go is with frequencies shorter than 12 minutes

Back in the day, I think Mayor Livingstone set a service floor of 4tph for 'turn up and go' but I strongly suspect Johnson didn't maintain this

 

[matt_world2004]

Back in the day, I think Mayor Livingstone set a service floor of 4tph for 'turn up and go' but I strongly suspect Johnson didn't maintain this

Page 4 of this document confirms that tfls floor for turn up and go is 12 mins or less

 

[43066]

Page 4 of this document confirms that tfls floor for turn up and go is 12 mins or less

Albeit that document dates from 2012, and relates to buses rather than trains…

 

[matt_world2004]

Albeit that document dates from 2012 and relates to buses rather than trains.

I think it would be consistent across modes however and there is no evidence of change in planning principles from tfl afaik

 

[306024]

A senior manager in Crossrail always quoted every 15 mins or less was considered 'turn up and go'.

 

[MikeWh]

12 minutes on buses takes account of traffic issues lengthening the wait. 15 minutes on trains is considered turn up and go, but personally I'd like to see that reduced to 10 minutes.

 

[bicbasher]

If a high frequency bus service in London is cut from 8 to 12 minutes, it's very noticeable with regards to waiting times and loads.

I think the Abbey Wood section will cope with 7.5 min gaps in service for now, but I can see demand especially for Canary Wharf increase which may require the peak frequency to be extended to off-peak, otherwise loads on the Jubilee may increase again.

When the ELL was extended to West Croydon/Crystal Palace, it started off fine, but is now overcrowded in the peaks and really needs at least 10tph in the peaks between NXG and Sydenham.

 

[Acton1991]

A senior manager in Crossrail always quoted every 15 mins or less was considered 'turn up and go'.

How convenient considering that’s the level of service they provide at some inner-London stations!

 

[Goldfish62]

Albeit that document dates from 2012, and relates to buses rather than trains…

It's still current for buses (in London), however I digress.

I've often seen 4tph quoted as "turn up and go" for National Rail services. Both SWT and Southern have used the term in the past.

 

[345 050]

I think the Abbey Wood section will cope with 7.5 min gaps in service for now, but I can see demand especially for Canary Wharf increase which may require the peak frequency to be extended to off-peak, otherwise loads on the Jubilee may increase again.

It does not compare well at all to the Jubilee off peak, and it's still lower than Jubilee even in the peak hours. I do wonder how many commuters have actually switched to the Elizabeth Line at Canary Wharf. I suppose it depends on their destination.

What this all highlights is just how much the Jubilee line has to offer, still a strong competitor to the new trains.

 

[Horizon22]

It does not compare well at all to the Jubilee off peak, and it's still lower than Jubilee even in the peak hours. I do wonder how many commuters have actually switched to the Elizabeth Line at Canary Wharf. I suppose it depends on their destination.

What this all highlights is just how much the Jubilee line has to offer, still a strong competitor to the new trains.

Depends where you're coming/going to for instance. The Jubilee is still packed and also swings through Waterloo and London Bridge. I'm not sure I'd personally go for the Elizabeth line Stratford - Canary Wharf (via Whitechapel) over the Jubilee; you have to change once either way (presuming you are coming from E. London, worse if you arrive from further afield) and time saving is about equal.

 

[IainG81]

Looks like late evening services are going between Ealing Broadway and Paddington in 10 minutes, earlier it was around 20 minutes between the two. Looks like getting trains from Hayes and Harlington instead of West Drayton is the best thing seing as Heathrow trains don't want as long. Enjoyed reading these updates today on this forum.

 

[ijmad]

It does not compare well at all to the Jubilee off peak, and it's still lower than Jubilee even in the peak hours. I do wonder how many commuters have actually switched to the Elizabeth Line at Canary Wharf. I suppose it depends on their destination.

What this all highlights is just how much the Jubilee line has to offer, still a strong competitor to the new trains.

A class 345 can carry twice the number of passengers as a Jubilee line train

 

[bicbasher]

Depends where you're coming/going to for instance. The Jubilee is still packed and also swings through Waterloo and London Bridge. I'm not sure I'd personally go for the Elizabeth line Stratford - Canary Wharf (via Whitechapel) over the Jubilee; you have to change once either way (presuming you are coming from E. London, worse if you arrive from further afield) and time saving is about equal.

Those coming on the ELL from South London Overground stations will certainly continue to use the Jubilee from Canada Water to Canary Wharf. Where I think the Elizabeth line may lose some passengers to the Jubilee is from Canonbury to Hoxton who would change at Whitechapel (initially reliving the Jubilee) and then stay on the ELL to Canada Water again, but it's only an extra 3 min wait if you miss a service.

What I noticed on the first week of the EL opening was ELL pax from South London staying on to Whitechapel for the West End, but changing at Canada Water still for Canary Wharf.

 

[Basil Jet]

Geoff Marshal's video is out:

Thanks. Geoff was wrong about Whitechapel... he said that people going from Shenfield to Abbey Wood will use the interchange corridor in the opposite direction to people going from Abbey Wood to Shenfield, whereas (of course) trains FROM Abbey Wood or Shenfield both arrive on the westbound and trains TO Abbey Wood or Shenfield both depart from the eastbound, so virtually all passenger flow in the corridor will be northward.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Train broken down in Central section. My train has been diverted to Paddington mainline.
(Poor signal on my phone so can't look up details)

 

[kevin_roche]

Train broken down in Central section. My train has been diverted to Paddington mainline.
(Poor signal on my phone so can't look up details)

It looks like Chaos on Signalmaps. 9U25 was stuck at Whitechapple and lots of trains collecting at the Paddington end of the COS as a result.

 

[345 050]

Was Severe Delays, but they seem to have recovered it to minor Delays now. Saw train at Custom House going Westbound full and standing - left some people behind. My Eastbound train was busy but not full.

 

[cambsy]

Caught up in disruption, at Paddington, so just been grab Costa and Upper Crust Baguette, before carry on running around, was about 15-20 mins wait for Heathrow train.

And heard a train, over shot Paddington platform, so they had to go to Westborne Park and then straight back again.

 

[LeeLivery]

Arguably, it's actually a better user experience to show skipped stations like that as it definitely confirms that they're not being stopped at - as opposed to just leaving them out, which can be confusing for people who are trying to find the station on the map or who are used to travelling on systems where certain diagrams and listings don't show all intermediate stops. It's a similar concept to showing cancelled trains as cancelled, rather than just vanishing them.

Fair point, but if in a general, if I see a striked-out station, I'd just think the stop was cancelled, rather than planned not to stop, as we see on Thameslink. But this isn't a big deal. It's the lack of showing all calling points onboard which I think is really going to cause confusion.

PM peak observations so far. Central stations seem a lot busier than usual. Liverpool Street Low level very busy. Shenfield trains are arriving at low level with the front coaches full and standing, and regular Liverpool Street commuters are not best pleased. Seem to be slightly fewer people at Stratford.


I did suggest that services sit at Ealing Broadway, but it was pointed out that this would block the up relief. However, I got a Heathrow train this evening and it seemed to lose a few minutes, conveniently, so we only had to wait about a minute outside Paddington. I wonder if the drivers have been given special instructions....

Liverpool Street was already seriously busy in peaks, I do wonder how it'll be if usage continues to rise further.

Oh, yeah! Completely forgot re. my journey yesterday!

A young American lady stayed on the train all the way to Maidenhead, and as we alighted she asked me, "Um, does this train go to Heathrow?".

I replied, No, you have to go all the way back to Hayes & Harlington and change there.

Now that could've been avoided if they had scrolled all stations across the screens onboard...

 

[The Quincunx]

Decidedly not whelmed by the experience this morning, after a 4-minute stand just outside the portal at Paddington for no apparent reason.

 

[Goldfish62]

It does not compare well at all to the Jubilee off peak, and it's still lower than Jubilee even in the peak hours. I do wonder how many commuters have actually switched to the Elizabeth Line at Canary Wharf. I suppose it depends on their destination.

What this all highlights is just how much the Jubilee line has to offer, still a strong competitor to the new trains.

It's not a competitor and people don't only go to Canary Wharf from the west.

Decidedly not whelmed by the experience this morning, after a 4-minute stand just outside the portal at Paddington for no apparent reason.

Those dwells are scheduled, but will disappear in May. Something to do with Network Rail.

 

[DC1989]

I noticed quite a few angry Liverpool Street commuters on twitter lamenting the fact they can no longer get a seat and have to travel further to the new platforms. You must wonder if some people have been living under a rock for the past 10 years

 

[Acton1991]

Those dwells are scheduled, but will disappear in May. Something to do with Network Rail.

I do wonder whether a recorded, official announcement should have been done to update passengers when they are onboard and sitting outside Paddington during a dwell.