Cryptic crossword item: enlightenment requested

[Calthrop]

I would like to beg assistance from cryptic crossword fans / lovers of these forums' "Cryptic clue = station name" game. A recently-encountered word-plus-clue in a cryptic crossword, is giving me a little puzzlement.

Certain confirmation received, that the answer word -- MAMBAS -- is the correct one. The clue runs: "Graduates keep small to medium reptiles". I read things, that "graduates" can mean MA, MB, BA, or a combination of any two of those -- variously singular or plural..

"Reptiles" refers to the full word MAMBAS. The "small to medium" element is puzzling me. It can be deduced -- possibly wrongly -- that A, or B (a bit improbably), or M, or MBA, could signify "small to medium"; but I have no idea "how come". Or am I altogether on the wrong track?

Any clarification would be very gratefully received.

 

[DaleCooper]

Possibly MA + M(edium) + BA +S(mall) or MA+M+BAS where the M is an abbreviation (i.e. small) for medium and BAS is plural of BA.

 

[sprunt]

How big is a mamba? "Medium" could maybe refer to the size of the reptile being sought, so part of the definition. Then you've got the graduates being MA and MBA, keeping small meaning being next to the letter S.

 

[curly42]

Typical black mamba around 8 foot in length,although specimens up to 14 foot have been recorded.

Hardly " medium" (although compared to pythons or anacondas ....).

 

[Calthrop]

Possibly MA + M(edium) + BA +S(mall) or MA+M+BAS where the M is an abbreviation (i.e. small) for medium and BAS is plural of BA.

As I read it, "keep" has got to indicate that the "small-to-medium"-related stuff is situated in between / bracketed by, the "graduates" stuff -- "cryptic" protocol is in my experience, rigorous over such rules as this. I could incline toward your second suggestion; but would reckon it a distinctly naughty "stretch" on the part of the setter, to have "small to medium" mean "M an abbreviation (word 'small') for 'medium' ". (My adverse criticism is of the setter of the clue, not of you ! Neither of your ideas given above, had occurred to me at all.

Typical black mamba around 8 foot in length,although specimens up to 14 foot have been recorded.
Hardly " medium" (although compared to pythons or anacondas ....).

How big is a mamba? "Medium" could maybe refer to the size of the reptile being sought, so part of the definition. Then you've got the graduates being MA and MBA, keeping small meaning being next to the letter S.

Afraid that I can't buy "medium" as referring to the size of the creatures in question -- cryptic clues are in their way, extremely precise and "watertight": I'm 100% sure that in the clue, "reptiles" means the mambas, and that everything else is concerned with "preceding matters".

At all events: thanks to all, for ideas offered.

 

[DaleCooper]

Bear in mind that setters (and typesetters) are fallible, sometimes there are errors in clues. For instance just removing the "to" would make my second suggestion work better. "Graduates keep small medium reptiles"

 

[Calthrop]

I still feel that "small [to ] medium" indicating "M", is a kind of "cryptic-ese" usage which I've never encountered over many decades of intermittent cryptic-crossword-doing. Which is not to say that it's unthinkable -- maybe indeed, a new invention which is catching on, or will do ! Your MA+M+BAS suggestion is, for sure, the "most imaginable" that I've seen to date.

 

[Calthrop]

Possibly MA + M(edium) + BA +S(mall) or MA+M+BAS where the M is an abbreviation (i.e. small) for medium and BAS is plural of BA.

@DaleCooper -- I've had a suggestion from elsewhere: I see this, and yours above, as pretty much variations on the same theme. The other chap as referred to, submits a new take on "keep" -- suggesting that "Graduates keep small" means, using the abbreviating letters instead of "Master of Arts" etc. in full. Thus, MA and BA, plus S for plural; with "to medium" meaning, add an M (generally accepted abbreviation in scale "SML") in mid-word. There are elements in both your and his interpretation, which are for sure new to me in the cryptic-clues field; but I find that essentially, both make sense (if that is an appropriate expression vis-a-vis the lunacies of Cryptic World) in a way that nothing else that has come my way on this one, does. My thanks for your insight here.

 

[DaleCooper]

Sometimes clues do appear to be just plain wrong. Here's an example I came across recently:

Crept along surreptitiously after the burglary. - Stolen

To me that seems wrong because "crept" is the past tense of "to creep" and the past tense of "to steal" is "stole" whereas "stolen" is the past participle which in this example seems to act as an adjective. Perhaps I've missed something or my grasp of grammar is lacking, does anyone have a different opinion?

 

[ComUtoR]

Could that be because the person had 'stolen away'

 

[Calthrop]

Could that be because the person had 'stolen away'

I'm with Dale -- tenses of verb should be consistent: if it's "had stolen away", i.e. "stolen" as answer; clue should reckonably have read "had crept". Could be that the setter had been a poor grammarian; and imperatively had to have "stolen" as an answer to fit his grid -- though if the latter were the case, there are clue-things he could have done with Central European rich fruit cakes, or bodies of water off England's south coast.

 

[Kingspanner]

As a general rule I'm with Ximenes on this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derrick_Somerset_Macnutt
In the clue, "crept along" might not refer to a person who has crept along but to a passage way which was crept along. Better grammarians than i can debate which tense is in play then.

 

[DaleCooper]

As a general rule I'm with Ximenes on this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derrick_Somerset_Macnutt
In the clue, "crept along" might not refer to a person who has crept along but to a passage way which was crept along. Better grammarians than i can debate which tense is in play then.

Yes that make sense. Now you have pointed it out that's the only way I can read it, a bit like one of those optical illusions where first you see a vase until someone points out that it's two faces in profile then you can no longer see the vase. Thanks.

 

[Calthrop]

Likewise ! I failed to see the "passageway which was crept along" angle.

 

[trebor79]

Going back to the original clue, is it not as simple as:
MA (Master of Arts)
MBA (Master of Business Administration)
S (plural)

 

[DaleCooper]

Going back to the original clue, is it not as simple as:
MA (Master of Arts)
MBA (Master of Business Administration)
S (plural)

If that were the case the clue would be better thus: "Graduates keep reptiles"