Cumbria Coast Electrification Announcement? (Barrow-Carlisle only)

[blueyclass319]

Recently my local MP (Simon Fell, for Barrow and Furness) stated in his weekly newsletter the following:
https://mailchi.mp/simonfell.org/this-weeks-newsletter-10419253

Last week, I sat down with Rail Minister Huw Merriman after the Budget to discuss a wide range of issues. First up was the electrification of the Furness Line. Given the huge work coming to Furness as part of the AUKUS project, it is essential that we look sensibly at how we improve our ability to bring freight in and out of Furness.

Already, the announcement has been made that the Energy Coast Line (Barrow - Carlisle) is to be electrified, taking 140million tonnes of freight off the roads each year. But we need to do the same on the Furness Line too

I can't see any such announcement, beyond the vague 'upgrades' mentioned in the Network North plan, which in my view isn't worth taking too much notice of(?).

Could anyone shed some light on this, I thought it was strange given the relatively light use of the Cumbria ("Energy") Coast Line, surely the busier leg from Barrow-Lancaster would be more logical to electrify first in any case, due to passenger numbers, and the fact that Barrow trains run under the wires to Manchester/Preston once they hit the WCML.

 

[CarrotPie]

Recently my local MP (Simon Fell, for Barrow and Furness) stated in his weekly newsletter the following:

"Last week, I sat down with Rail Minister Huw Merriman after the Budget to discuss a wide range of issues. First up was the electrification of the Furness Line. Given the huge work coming to Furness as part of the AUKUS project, it is essential that we look sensibly at how we improve our ability to bring freight in and out of Furness. Already, the announcement has been made that the Energy Coast Line (Barrow - Carlisle) is to be electrified, taking 140million tonnes of freight off the roads each year. But we need to do the same on the Furness Line too" - https://mailchi.mp/simonfell.org/this-weeks-newsletter-10419253

I can't see any such announcement, beyond the vague 'upgrades' mentioned in the Network North plan, which in my view isn't worth taking too much notice of(?). Could anyone shed some light on this, I thought it was strange given the relatively light use of the Cumbria ("Energy") Coast Line, surely the busier leg from Barrow-Lancaster would be more logical to electrify first in any case, due to passenger numbers, and the fact that Barrow trains run under the wires to Manchester/Preston once they hit the WCML.

It's the Tories. It's probably another baseless dead cat/opinion-gathering exercise.

 

[DanNCL]

Cumbrian Coast being wired before wires reach Sheffield or Nottingham? I’d be amazed.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Cumbrian Coast being wired before wires reach Sheffield or Nottingham? I’d be amazed.

Exactly.

So off-beat I think this belongs in the Speculative section of the forum.

 

[SteveM70]

In his speech at last year's Tory conference where Sunak canned the northern part of HS2, he gave a list of other stuff they'd do instead, and one of those was the "upgrade" of Barrow to Carlisle (he actually said the hideous "energy coast" line). Electrification was never mentioned. Simon Fell was subsequently quoted in local and regional media as welcoming the "upgrade".

Its now suddenly become electrification, or at least it has in Fell's mind



[EDIT]

I've just emailed Simon Fell asking him to provide the details of the electrification announcement, though I suspect that s I'm not one of his constituents I won't get a reply

 

[Lucy1501]

Electrifying Barrow to Carlisle before Carnforth to Barrow and Oxenholme to Windermere makes zero sense. I thought the only announcement made was for signalling alterations to allow freights to the new coal line?

Electrifying Carnforth to Barrow and Oxenholme to Windermere would help get rid of diesels running under the wires from Manchester Airport. Barrow to Carlisle would get, what, a few local trains off of diesel?

Not to mention the Corkickle tunnel's already restrictive guage issues and its current leaks, the large amounts of viaducts, tight loading guages on the M&C section and all the viaducts and other coastal locations.

I very much doubt that the alterations to the Cumbrian Coast would be much more than an intermediate block between Maryport and Wigton and a siding in the Corkickle area.

 

[blueyclass319]

In his speech at last year's Tory conference where Sunak canned the northern part of HS2, he gave a list of other stuff they'd do instead, and one of those was the "upgrade" of Barrow to Carlisle (he actually said the hideous "energy coast" line). Electrification was never mentioned. Simon Fell was subsequently quoted in local and regional media as welcoming the "upgrade".

Its now suddenly become electrification, or at least it has in Fell's mind



[EDIT]

I've just emailed Simon Fell asking him to provide the details of the electrification announcement, though I suspect that s I'm not one of his constituents I won't get a reply

Good idea, I'll send off an email this evening as I'm a constituent. I'll be sure to share any response here in due course!

 

[SteveM70]

Good idea, I'll send off an email this evening as I'm a constituent. I'll be sure to share any response here in due course!

Excellent, thanks

 

[a_c_skinner]

A few years ago I used to get excited by "announcements" like this. Skipton to Colne and Uckfield to Lewes got me, as did Great Rocks Dale to Matlock. Not now. And not this one. (Except Windermere, which must make sense.)

 

[Pinus contorta]

Without getting too mired in politics, this guy has a track record of claiming one thing when it suits him, and then later on, saying something completely at odds with his previous statement.

This has certainly been the case with the A595 road enhancements. With him claiming the start date of 2024, with shovels in the ground, and then later on local folk discovered that the scheme hasn't even secured funding from the Treasury ( or wherever) and later on still in the saga, jumping on the bandwaggon claiming that that work will start in 2025 as part of levelling up funding that he has personally lobbied the government for. ( sigh of exasperation)

Transparency and accountability to his constituency aren't really his thing from what some folks have said when they have tried communicating with him.

 

[Krokodil]

Except Windermere, which must make sense.

Lancaster-Barrow and Oxenholme-Windermere both make sense on the basis that a relatively short section of wires can remove a large amount of diesel running. They're effectively infill or last-mile projects.

Not this plan though.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

A few years ago I used to get excited by "announcements" like this. Skipton to Colne and Uckfield to Lewes got me, as did Great Rocks Dale to Matlock. Not now. And not this one. (Except Windermere, which must make sense.)

I feel the same way. I just let out a big yawn now unless it is in the autumn statement or better still the budget and even then it could be cancelled. That is not cynicism, it is realism.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Without getting too mired in politics, this guy has a track record of claiming one thing when it suits him, and then later on, saying something completely at odds with his previous statement.

This has certainly been the case with the A595 road enhancements. With him claiming the start date of 2024, with shovels in the ground, and then later on local folk discovered that the scheme hasn't even secured funding from the Treasury ( or wherever) and later on still in the saga, jumping on the bandwaggon claiming that that work will start in 2025 as part of levelling up funding that he has personally lobbied the government for. ( sigh of exasperation)

Transparency and accountability to his constituency aren't really his thing from what some folks have said when they have tried communicating with him.

Fairly likely to lose his seat to be honest, boundary changes up there as well

 

[SteveM70]

I've had a response from one of Simon Fell's team and as expected unless I can prove I live in the constituency I won't get an answer

I've replied - slightly tongue in cheek - saying that if that's the case, surely Mr Fell should be limited to talking about things that are wholly contained within his constituency, reminding him its a really simple question, and inviting him to reply to it

Obviously I won't get another reply now, but hopefully @blueyclass319 will

 

[The Chimaera]

The electrification mentioned is more likely to be that theyll be getting electric lamps in the signals vice paraffin. One is rather sceptical about this government’s announcements.

 

[Djgr]

Didn't Boris promise to reverse all the Beeching cuts?!

 

[Pinus contorta]

Had another look at his statement its clearly just been borrowed off a script from somewhere else as I don't think there are 8000 + HGV loads a day of goods trundling down the A66 / A595 are there ?

He must have been poorly briefed by some junior in Westminster to get all that lot of information wrong. Or maybe he writes his own press releases without researching them first?

When did the line suddenly change its name to the 'Energy Coast Line' I missed that one?

 

[SteveM70]

Had another look at his statement its clearly just been borrowed off a script from somewhere else as I don't think there are 8000 + HGV loads a day of goods trundling down the A66 / A595 are there ?

He must have been poorly briefed by some junior in Westminster to get all that lot of information wrong. Or maybe he writes his own press releases without researching them first?

When did the line suddenly change its name to the 'Energy Coast Line' I missed that one?

I hadn't noticed that gem in his spiel!

I think the number of vehicles he's claiming are saved is actually more than you say....

140 million tonnes at a maximum payload of 30 tonnes (and that's probably slightly generous), and assuming 365 day a year operation is 12,785 full loads per day......and of course they'd all have to go back empty too, unless he's magically created a perfectly balanced ecosystem where every vehicle goes back full loaded with something else, so potentially over 25,000 trips a day (or to look at it another way, a truck going past your window every three and a bit seconds!!!)

Its just insane that these people can pump out garbage like this.

@blueyclass319 could you ask your local MP about this as well please?

 

[Pinus contorta]

I hadn't noticed that gem in his spiel!

I think the number of vehicles he's claiming are saved is actually more than you say....

140 million tonnes at a maximum payload of 30 tonnes (and that's probably slightly generous), and assuming 365 day a year operation is 12,785 full loads per day......and of course they'd all have to go back empty too, unless he's magically created a perfectly balanced ecosystem where every vehicle goes back full loaded with something else, so potentially over 25,000 trips a day (or to look at it another way, a truck going past your window every three and a bit seconds!!!)

Its just insane that these people can pump out garbage like this.

@blueyclass319 could you ask your local MP about this as well please?

Whoops even my mathematical skills underestimated the HGV armageddon !! I just divided by 44 tonnes

 

[duffield]

A few years ago I used to get excited by "announcements" like this. Skipton to Colne and Uckfield to Lewes got me, as did Great Rocks Dale to Matlock. Not now. And not this one. (Except Windermere, which must make sense.)

Yes, same here. Now I assume that 98% will never happen, and the very easiest 2% (like re-opening to Portishead) might possibly happen after 20-40 years, in a cut down half-hearted way. My sister, who lives in the south west, said that "they were looking to re-open the line to Bude". I told her not to hold her breath, and check back for any progress in a decade or two.

 

[JJmoogle]

The coast has absolutely no chance for electrification for ages, Bizzare

It almost reads like he's got confused about and mixed up the lines involved, as in they'll do Barrow to Carnforth, a relatively easy project to announce in an election year, that removes a lot of diesel under wires running and he's going to be 'campaigning' to have them do the coast.

 

[SteveM70]

The coast has absolutely no chance for electrification for ages, Bizzare

It almost reads like he's got confused about and mixed up the lines involved, as in they'll do Barrow to Carnforth, a relatively easy project to announce in an election year, that removes a lot of diesel under wires running and he's going to be 'campaigning' to have them do the coast.

Possibly. And it could be that the 140 million tonnes he’s quoted comes from an outline business case and might be the total for the time period of the analysis. Or it could all be the gibberish outcome of a red wall Tory’s pre-election fever dreams. Who knows?

 

[Pinus contorta]

There's quarries generating a reasonable amount of tonnage, apart from that I can only think of timber traffic and construction going to Sellafield in any numbers that could be part of his big numbers. On the other hand this new coal mine that may or may not open at Whitehaven might be where he has got his figures from. However that's not taking x number of lorries off the roads because it s hypothetical figure untill or if the mine opens.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Has he somehow confused Carlisle with Carnforth?

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

West Cumbria Mining are already being rushed for money to add stations and tracks to the existing line, maybe we’re going to lean on them for electrification while we’re at it

 

[ScottGallagher]

If this was even remotely true then Trudy Harrison and Mark Jenkinson MPs up the line would have also been trumpeting the same 'upgrade'

 

[SteveM70]

However that's not taking x number of lorries off the roads because it s hypothetical figure untill or if the mine opens

Yes, but remember Tory MPs are the ones that will happily tell you that deferring an increase in fuel duty is actually a tax cut that puts more money in your pocket

 

[Pinus contorta]

Yes, but remember Tory MPs are the ones that will happily tell you that deferring an increase in fuel duty is actually a tax cut that puts more money in your pocket

Oh yea that game of snakes and ladders. Some snakes being more slippery and slimey than others in the run up to an Election.

 

[wilbers]

As far as increasing freight capacity in Cumbria goes, surely the biggest factor is in the very near term (i.e. anything that can be pointed to prior to the general election) the A66 upgrade as there are quite literally boots on the ground - drove past the base for the upgrade this week, and part of a field at one side is part way to being turned into what will presumably be a compound for equipment, and a field opposite may end up the same though so far it was only 3 diggers that had moved some soil around.

Wrong side of the county for a Barrow MP to say its of great benefit to Barrow, but it is still the same county, and MP here is also a Conservative (I do still miss Rory Stewart being an MP, one of the good ones).

 

[zwk500]

Didn't Boris promise to reverse all the Beeching cuts?!

He never promised to reverse all Beeching cuts, and he was also booted back out to the backbenches some while ago.