D9000 LSL Railtour

[Bertie the bus]

Doesn't say much if they've to rely on a Duff

Just about every diesel hauled railtour on the mainline has 2 locos.

 

[Whistler40145]

Just about every diesel hauled railtour on the mainline has 2 locos.

Not always

 

[spyinthesky]

If a loco were to fail the cost of recovery in certain places would probably send the operator into administration, having a back up makes perfect sense

 

[D6130]

If a loco were to fail the cost of recovery in certain places would probably send the operator into administration, having a back up makes perfect sense

Very true....but the following West Coast railtour - hauled by 86 259 - didn't have a stand-by loco attached on the rear. Do WCRC have some kind of special dispensation?

 

[Bertie the bus]

There are multiple reasons why tours run top ‘n’ tail – insurance against failure, provide ETS, remove the need for run round. The 47 provided all of those on this tour and as I stated top ‘n’ tail on railtours isn’t unusual in the slightest. In fact single diesel locos on tours are the exception. Nothing to see here.

 

[9007pinza]

Great to see a Deltic out and about again, I gather that the 47 did some work, helping out. Would this be powered from the Deltic cab?, or would it have been stand alone with a driver powering?. I presume there is radio comms between the Deltic and 47?

 

[D365]

Very true....but the following West Coast railtour - hauled by 86 259 - didn't have a stand-by loco attached on the rear. Do WCRC have some kind of special dispensation?

Electrics tend to be a tad more reliable!

 

[Trackman]

I’m I right in thinking that the 2nd engine only cuts in over a certain speed (maybe around 25 ish)?

From what I’ve gleaned from various other forums it looks like the second power unit on 55022 has had to be removed for further work with a different one dropped in to keep the weight balance correct. I’m not sure of the timescale regarding getting it working on two engines again though.

From what I've heard, it's a known issue so will be resolved.
Anyone know where the powers units/Gennys where sent for overhaul?

It is 55022, also known as D9000, and therefore 89500.

Explained here:

https://features.rcts.org.uk/locomotives/tops-class-89/

In the same way, mainline steam locomotives are registered in the class 98 series.

Some heritage locos have their original TOPS numbers on the system but I think they have to apply for them, there is a ye olde thread about this somewhere, but there has been no 'Deltic' that can use their original TOPS number.

 

[Iskra]

The future LSL tours with this loco are cancelled due to mechanical concerns

 

[BigB]

Correct and correct. I heard somewhere in the range of 40mph.

I recall it is actually related to the power controller setting rather than physical speed, so you usually only see one black tower when it pulls out of a station, but once at speed and moving say 40 upwards, the controller moves to notch 6(??) then both engines kick in.
This came from a 45 minute tour of RSG at Oban when Martin leant me one of the drivers to show me and my son the engine operation when we had it on a railtour - the driver got my son to prime the coolant and other manual tasks before starting up for the return leg, which my son enjoyed, and saved the driver some efforts
Thee is a brilliant piece of design where the oil pressure gauge is between the steps down from the can to the engine compartment. Not visible when looking in, but certainly is whilst standing with your finger on the start button, and if it fails to rise within 20 seconds of so you can quickly press stop..

 

[humbersidejim]

The future LSL tours with this loco are cancelled due to mechanical concerns

Disappointing!

It’s a shame there isn’t a suitable substitute available, or perhaps a 47 on the back to provide more power.

Perhaps, reading between the lines, some of these tours haven’t sold as well as anticipated?

 

[Goofle]

Great to see a Deltic out and about again, I gather that the 47 did some work, helping out. Would this be powered from the Deltic cab?, or would it have been stand alone with a driver powering?. I presume there is radio comms between the Deltic and 47?

I’ve often wondered about how it’s controlled too. Id guess, like you, there’s another driver in the rear loco some radio communication between the two drivers? Not sure the idea of sat gazing at the rear of a coach for hours on end would appeal though!
Equally I’m curious as to the safety as to pushing at line speed with what I’d describe as buffer to buffer rather than a more solid link as with a DVT set? It’s obviously safe as it is the way, but I’m curious.
Hopefully someone will enlighten me…

 

[Iskra]

Disappointing!

It’s a shame there isn’t a suitable substitute available, or perhaps a 47 on the back to provide more power.

Perhaps, reading between the lines, some of these tours haven’t sold as well as anticipated?

Well they can’t really win can they? If the Deltic only has one engine people will (justifiably in my mind) complain about that, and if the 47 ‘helps’ another sub-set of enthusiasts would probably take umbrage with that. I was booked on one of the tours and while I am disappointed with the cancellation I would rather do it in the future with full Deltic power available.

I think that’s slightly unfair speculation, LSL more than any other operator have shown themselves willing to run tours (and charters) regardless of their loadings- The Clansman ran to Inverness with a reported 60 passengers on board and the Friday Charter has continued to run despite early loadings being light.

 

[Richard Scott]

Correct and correct. I heard somewhere in the range of 40mph.

It's around 25, where can go to notch 6 without overloading.

 

[33056]

I’ve often wondered about how it’s controlled too. Id guess, like you, there’s another driver in the rear loco some radio communication between the two drivers? Not sure the idea of sat gazing at the rear of a coach for hours on end would appeal though!
Equally I’m curious as to the safety as to pushing at line speed with what I’d describe as buffer to buffer rather than a more solid link as with a DVT set? It’s obviously safe as it is the way, but I’m curious.
Hopefully someone will enlighten me…

AFAIK, Deltics can't work in multiple with anything so the 47 on the rear would have a separate driver in radio contact with the front driver. Even if the loco was only there for heating purposes it would still need to be manned for fire precautions, a loco on the rear can only be left unattended if it is completely shut down.

Multiple working through the train (as opposed to having a driving trailer one end) is fairly rare in the UK but quite common in certain parts of Europe.

 

[43096]

a loco on the rear can only be left unattended if it is completely shut down.

That’s not the case. Locos can be left unattended at the rear if they are fitted with automatic fire extinguisher equipment. If that wasn’t the case we wouldn’t have push-pull working and HSTs would run with the rear power car always shut down.

 

[Richard Scott]

AFAIK, Deltics can't work in multiple with anything so the 47 on the rear would have a separate driver in radio contact with the front driver. Even if the loco was only there for heating purposes it would still need to be manned for fire precautions, a loco on the rear can only be left unattended if it is completely shut down.

Multiple working through the train (as opposed to having a driving trailer one end) is fairly rare in the UK but quite common in certain parts of Europe.

Deltics never had multiple working equipment and nor did 47s until retrofitted on some locos.
Multiple working through the train in Europe (on IC stock) is commonly through the door control wiring (I believe)same as our TDM system that used lighting wiring circuits so we could do it here (or could have since little IC hauled stock remaining) but don't.

 

[Pep and co]

I've just passed D9000 running light engine from Crewe to Barrow Hill

 

[fgwrich]

I've just passed D9000 running light engine from Crewe to Barrow Hill

Final repairs to be carried out by Harry Needle.

 

[D6968]

Final repairs to be carried out by Harry Needle.

Would have thought the DPS would have a bit more knowledge.

 

[Richard Scott]

Would have thought the DPS would have a bit more knowledge.

D9000 isn't a DPS machine and doubt they'd have the time to work on another person's loco.

 

[D6968]

D9000 isn't a DPS machine and doubt they'd have the time to work on another person's loco.

I know 55022 isn’t a DPS machine, neither is it a Harry Needle machine either, but I would have thought at least conversation could have been discussed with a certain group that have operated Deltics for the past 40 years to take advantage of the knowledge they have.

 

[43096]

I know 55022 isn’t a DPS machine, neither is it a Harry Needle machine either, but I would have thought at least conversation could have been discussed with a certain group that have operated Deltics for the past 40 years to take advantage of the knowledge they have.

Why would the DPS freely give their knowledge to a commercial organisation, which is what Loadsamoney Services is?

 

[D365]

I know 55022 isn’t a DPS machine, neither is it a Harry Needle machine either, but I would have thought at least conversation could have been discussed with a certain group that have operated Deltics for the past 40 years to take advantage of the knowledge they have.

A rather odd comment. HNRC’s bread-and-butter business is overhauling ex-BR diesels.

 

[D6968]

Why would the DPS freely give their knowledge to a commercial organisation, which is what Loadsamoney Services is?

Maybe because they like Deltics? I’m not saying they should give advice freely, but I would have thought even just an informal chat with with with someone at the DPS wouldn’t be a bad thing.
The knowledge and the experience is there, if you want a bit more detail then of course you pay for it.

Do you really think while Deltic 22’s at Barrow Hill there’s not going to be at least one intrested DPS engineer who’s going to take a look?

 

[D365]

Maybe because they like Deltics? I’m not saying they should give advice freely, but I would have thought even just an informal chat with with with someone at the DPS wouldn’t be a bad thing.

Still not sure what your point is? Knowledge is all well and good for understanding schematics and diagrams, but as I've pointed out, HNRC's business is repairing and overhauling ex-BR diesels.

 

[Whistler40145]

Should LSL have waited until D9000 has two working engines fitted?

 

[D6968]

Still not sure what your point is? Knowledge is all well and good for understanding schematics and diagrams, but as I've pointed out, HNRC's business is repairing and overhauling ex-BR diesels.

Im not sure what your point is regarding what a Deltic is. Are they not ex BR Diesels, I’ve always understood they were on TOPS as 55001 to 55022? Or did I just dream that?

My point is it seems nobody from LSL seems to have asked someone with a knowledge of Class 55’s ‘can you help us with this please?’
There’s a group at Barrow Hill (and a previous owner) that might be able to point LSL in the right direction.
I believe 55022’s previous owner was quite happy to have dialogue with the DPS about Deltic operations, I find it rather baffling that LSL haven’t done something similar.
What’s difficult to understand about that?

 

[D365]

Im not sure what your point is regarding what a Deltic is. Are they not ex BR Diesels, I’ve always understood they were on TOPS as 55001 to 55022? Or did I just dream that?

My point is it seems nobody from LSL seems to have asked someone with a knowledge of Class 55’s ‘can you help us with this please?’
There’s a group at Barrow Hill (and a previous owner) that might be able to point LSL in the right direction.
I believe 55022’s previous owner was quite happy to have dialogue with the DPS about Deltic operations, I find it rather baffling that LSL haven’t done something similar.
What’s difficult to understand about that?

@fgwrich's post was that 55022 has gone to HNRC for final repairs. HNRC is a company that does repairs and overhauls on ex-BR diesels, i.e. English Electric and Brush locomotives. What has a conversation with the DPS got to do with sending a loco for repair?

 

[D6968]

@fgwrich's post was that 55022 has gone to HNRC for final repairs. HNRC is a company that does repairs and overhauls on ex-BR diesels, i.e. English Electric and Brush locomotives. What has a conversation with the DPS got to do with sending a loco for repair?

What particular Class of loco is being sent for repair? Look at the thread title.
There’s someone on site with the specialist knowledge that could help LSL, do you not understand that very simple fact?