DB and OBB experiences

[Krokodil]

Despite Schengen?

 

[rg177]

Despite Schengen?

Yes and it's pretty common at most border rail stations in/out of Germany etc.

It's mostly a quick walk through the train to eyeball anyone suspicious. It isn't a full border control.

Yesterday only a local door was released, the police walked through then all doors were released once they had two people that they wanted to speak to - we then left five mins late or so.

Today I'm trying to do Mannheim to Berlin via Frankfurt, Kassel and Magdeburg. It's off to a good start as the inbound Frankfurt to Mannheim RE is racking up a delay due to "signal repairs".

 

[Austriantrain]

Despite Schengen?

Yes. Special border controls to stem the flow of refugees, likely illegal under European Law (because extended to often and for too long), but still in place. Austria does the same at its eastern/southern borders.

However, the checks are normally not very intrusive and do not resemble normal border controls in the pre-Schengen area.

 

[johncrossley]

My passport was checked on the train from Luxembourg to Trier. However, nobody else in the carriage was checked.

 

[eastwestdivide]

We had a Swiss border check at Buchs on a through train from Austria to Zurich. They examined my UK passport, saw my partner had the same and moved on without opening it. Less than 10 mins stop including reversal.
But no check on the regional train to Kufstein entering Austria from Munich.

 

[nw1]

I actually did the same trip - London to Vienna by rail - back in the early 2010s and during summer, though outside the UK school holidays.

It has to be said my experiences were considerably more positive regarding timekeeping, (lack of) overcrowding, and value. The cost, IIRC, was around £100 each way, though might have been a little more on the way back as I diverted to Salzburg rather than come straight home. I did other journeys to Germany and Austria in this era and the cost was similar each time, perhaps less on some occasions.

I do remember the Frankfurt-Vienna trip being incredibly long, probably the longest continuous rail service I've been on. I enjoy continental rail trips but at one point (east of Regensburg, I think) even I was getting restless. It was a slightly dark day and perhaps a little hazy, which may not have helped. Once over the border into Austria the train sped up (faster four-track railway?) and there were more in the way of rolling green hills so more to look at.

It was Eurostar and 3xICE on the way out (I overnighted at Cologne and then changed at Frankfurt the following day).

On the return it was a Railjet from Vienna to Salzburg, which had originated in Budapest and was the most overcrowded of all the services, though I still had a seat. I then spent a few days in the mountains round Berchtesgaden before catching an early Sunday morning loco-hauled (push-pull) DB service from Salzburg-Frankfurt via Heidelberg and thence by ICE and Eurostar home. The return journey was in one day, helped by the clock change giving you an extra hour (as opposed to taking away an hour when going east).

One thing the German and Austrian railways get right (or got right in the early 2010s) was a combination of clockface regular interval service between major Hbf nodes, and variety of ultimate destination, thus providing once-a-day through services between smaller places. For instance there was a two-hourly Salzburg-Frankfurt service, but IIRC the originating point and terminus point varied between services. It was all rather like the "old" XC, and rather good for it.

The other thing that surprised me was just how underwhelming the Westbahnhof was (especially compared with the Hbfs of Cologne, Frankfurt, Stuttgart and Munich, for instance). Just a few platforms despite being the terminus of trains from Western Europe, though I understand the other station was Vienna's main one.

We had a Swiss border check at Buchs on a through train from Austria to Zurich. They examined my UK passport, saw my partner had the same and moved on without opening it. Less than 10 mins stop including reversal.
But no check on the regional train to Kufstein entering Austria from Munich.

Never had any passport checks for Schengen borders, including Switzerland, so I guess they're random (or perhaps more extensive now as I get the impression "open borders" are less fashionable than they were in the late 00s or early 10s, sadly - and not just here).

I did, in this era. have a plain clothes police officer (who I was initially a bit suspicious of; I asked for ID) ask for my passport when on a Cercanias service from Barcelona to Latour de Carol, though - even though I was keeping within Spain and not crossing the border.

 

[williamn]

I actually did the same trip - London to Vienna by rail - back in the early 2010s and during summer, though outside the UK school holidays.

It has to be said my experiences were considerably more positive regarding timekeeping, (lack of) overcrowding, and value. The cost, IIRC, was around £100 each way, though might have been a little more on the way back as I diverted to Salzburg rather than come straight home. I did other journeys to Germany and Austria in this era and the cost was similar each time, perhaps less on some occasions.

I do remember the Frankfurt-Vienna trip being incredibly long, probably the longest continuous rail service I've been on. I enjoy continental rail trips but at one point (east of Regensburg, I think) even I was getting restless. It was a slightly dark day and perhaps a little hazy, which may not have helped. Once over the border into Austria the train sped up (faster four-track railway?) and there were more in the way of rolling green hills so more to look at.

It was Eurostar and 3xICE on the way out (I overnighted at Cologne and then changed at Frankfurt the following day).

On the return it was a Railjet from Vienna to Salzburg, which had originated in Budapest and was the most overcrowded of all the services, though I still had a seat. I then spent a few days in the mountains round Berchtesgaden before catching an early Sunday morning loco-hauled (push-pull) DB service from Salzburg-Frankfurt via Heidelberg and thence by ICE and Eurostar home. The return journey was in one day, helped by the clock change giving you an extra hour (as opposed to taking away an hour when going east).

One thing the German and Austrian railways get right (or got right in the early 2010s) was a combination of clockface regular interval service between major Hbf nodes, and variety of ultimate destination, thus providing once-a-day through services between smaller places. For instance there was a two-hourly Salzburg-Frankfurt service, but IIRC the originating point and terminus point varied between services. It was all rather like the "old" XC, and rather good for it.

The other thing that surprised me was just how underwhelming the Westbahnhof was (especially compared with the Hbfs of Cologne, Frankfurt, Stuttgart and Munich, for instance). Just a few platforms despite being the terminus of trains from Western Europe, though I understand the other station was Vienna's main one.

I know it has lots of plaudits but I was similarly underwhelmed by Vienna’s new Hbf. It’s fine - works well, clean etc but it’s just a box, no architectural interest to my mind. Not like, for example other new stations like Rotterdam which have a flair to them.

 

[nw1]

Police controls at Freilassing are normal.

Went through Freilassing a couple of times (two separate years) in the first half of the 2010s and there was absolutely nothing. Occasions included:

a) Salzburg to Munich, called there but did not alight;
b) Munich to Berchtesgaden, changing trains there;
c) Berchtesgaden to Salzburg (see below);
d) Berchtesgaden to Munich, changing trains there.

Even spent 45 mins or so waiting there (wanted to do Berchtesgaden to Salzburg by train 'for the fun of it'. and connections at Freilassing were poor in that direction). No one gave me the slightest look of interest. In fact the station was pretty deserted, IIRC. On the way back, in the evening, there were actually through services from Salzburg; I recall boarding at the station immediately west of the Hbf as I'd been to some kind of place which did rather good beer in the vicinity.

If there is now more in the way of police presence, it's sadly symptomatic of the less-liberal world we live in now compared to the early 2010s, I guess.

 

[Krokodil]

Went through Freilassing a couple of times (two separate years) in the first half of the 2010s and there was absolutely nothing. Occasions included:

a) Salzburg to Munich, called there but did not alight;
b) Munich to Berchtesgaden, changing trains there;
c) Berchtesgaden to Salzburg (see below);
d) Berchtesgaden to Munich, changing trains there.

Even spent 45 mins or so waiting there (wanted to do Berchtesgaden to Salzburg by train 'for the fun of it'. and connections at Freilassing were poor in that direction). No one gave me the slightest look of interest. In fact the station was pretty deserted, IIRC. On the way back, in the evening, there were actually through services from Salzburg; I recall boarding at the station immediately west of the Hbf as I'd been to some kind of place which did rather good beer in the vicinity.

If there is now more in the way of police presence, it's sadly symptomatic of the less-liberal world we live in now compared to the early 2010s, I guess.

That's sort of what I was getting at when I asked if they were a recent (i.e. post-2015) phenomenon. I'd a feeling that the migrant crisis and the sudden closure of the German border at the time may have changed things.

My passport was checked on the train from Luxembourg to Trier. However, nobody else in the carriage was checked.

That reminds me: Last year I was on the Zurich-Paris TGV Lyria. The Swiss border force went through the train between Zurich and Basel, on my deck they asked one other person for their passport, from what I overheard they may have had an out of date work permit. I was asked what the purpose of my visit was (photographing trains, obviously). Otherwise no one else on the top deck of that carriage was checked.

 

[DanNCL]

After reading these forums I’d been expecting my ICE journey today to be disrupted. Quite the opposite of that my ICE from Frankfurt to Berlin arrived at Berlin Hbf 3 minutes early!
As expected from looking at vagonweb cz an ICE 1 set turned up.

 

[paul_munich]

As expected from looking at vagonweb cz an ICE 1 set turned up.

Fernbahn.de is usually the better source for Germany.

 

[duesselmartin]

Despite Schengen?

Since the refugee crisis, Schengen is not what it used to be. As the controls at Freilassing and Passau got more strict, the refugee route moved further to the Czech Rep and Poland, some even passing Ukraine.
So controls along the Oder and Neisse will now be intensivied.

 

[rg177]

I'm realising that one of the biggest causes of delays to Regional services in Germany is the constant shoving aside for late running IC/ICE trains.

Granted, you'd want to do it to avoid a huge delay to the long-distance traffic, but once its been done once to a service, it keeps happening repeatedly and then your path is lost.

I was travelling from Kassel to Magdeburg earlier with a supposed change in Sangerhausen. Of course, we were late and it left two minutes before we arrived, much to the exasperation of everyone who had a two hour wait now. I ended up continuing to Halle instead and changing there.

 

[daglondon]

I was on a Railjet between Salzburg and Vienna recently. A couple of plainclothes police officers did a sweep of the train doing identification checks, apparently at random. They were built like JCBs, so no one was going to hide in the loo. The train had come from Zurich, so it was going in the opposite direction to the typical refugee route. Not sure if Westbahn trains get the same treatment.

Half of Salzburg's population seemed to have descended on the station Spar, perhaps because of the strict Sunday trading laws. It was carnage.

 

[Route115?]

That's sort of what I was getting at when I asked if they were a recent (i.e. post-2015) phenomenon. I'd a feeling that the migrant crisis and the sudden closure of the German border at the time may have changed things.


That reminds me: Last year I was on the Zurich-Paris TGV Lyria. The Swiss border force went through the train between Zurich and Basel, on my deck they asked one other person for their passport, from what I overheard they may have had an out of date work permit. I was asked what the purpose of my visit was (photographing trains, obviously). Otherwise no one else on the top deck of that carriage was checked.

I saw that a few years ago - although I had joined the train a Basel. Had I been trying to avoid border checks I would have got off arriving from France at Basel.

If you want to avoid border checks travel on the local train.

I rembember a few years travelling between Basel & Basel Bad and finding that I had to go through an (unstaffed) customs channel to get out to the street but there we no checks for onward travel to Germany. Strange!

 

[DanielB]

I rembember a few years travelling between Basel & Basel Bad and finding that I had to go through an (unstaffed) customs channel to get out to the street but there we no checks for onward travel to Germany. Strange!

That's because Basel Bad Bf is technically Germany, so you'll cross the border when exiting the station only. The local border crossings seem not to be checked regularly, though when I arrived by TER from Strasbourg in Basel last summer there was an officer watching passengers leaving the French platforms at Basel SBB, there where just no border checks but suspicious passengers may have been spoken to.

 

[Krokodil]

That's because Basel Bad Bf is technically Germany, so you'll cross the border when exiting the station only. The local border crossings seem not to be checked regularly, though when I arrived by TER from Strasbourg in Basel last summer there was an officer watching passengers leaving the French platforms at Basel SBB, there where just no border checks but suspicious passengers may have been spoken to.

Two years ago I arrived from Strasbourg on a TER service. At the time you were supposed to hand in a Passenger Locator form to tell the authorities where you were staying in case of covid. No sign of a border or customs official to hand it to, everything was locked up.