DB Savings Tickets

[LNW-GW Joint]

I have used these excellent-value tickets before, and am now wondering about the small print of starting late/ending short.
This is the sort of thing that gets British TOCs angry with the equivalent (Advance) tickets, and they insist on the exact point-to-point journey being made.

What I would like to know is (for Wed Oct 10, booking via DB web site):

Travelling Basel Bad Bf to Milan (0941 ICE via Zurich).
Standard fare EUR 105.20, no cheap fares.
(SBB site gives CHF 115, also no cheap fares).

But if I book from Freiburg (on the same ICE train, dep 0901), the standard fare is is EUR 125.20, but there is also currently a Savings fare of EUR 53.
So the question is, can I buy the Savings fare from Freiburg and join the train at Basel?

I've looked for DB's Terms and Conditions for Savings tickets but apart from the obvious restriction to the one train, I can't find out if "starting late" (or ending short) is allowed.

Does anyone on here know?

 

[Oscar]

I believe that the answer to your question is not expressly defined but as stopping/starting short is not expressly forbidden I strongly believe that it is allowed.

Break of journey is certainly allowed with Sparpreise through use of the stop-over function.
Die Mobilitätsangebote der Bahn (a DB guide to tickets: http://www.bahn.de/p/view/mdb/bahni...MDB105266-mobilitaetsangebote_gesamt_2012.pdf) says:

Fahrtunterbrechungen
sind möglich, wenn sie mit Zugbindung verbindlich gebucht
werden.

Translation: break of journey is possible if it is booked definitively with the rail connection.

This however does not refer to the specific situation you are interested in.

The answer to your question is an important one, as starting short is often advantageous on the German network.

I can enquire at a staffed station if that would help.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I believe that the answer to your question is not expressly defined but as stopping/starting short is not expressly forbidden I strongly believe that it is allowed.

Break of journey is certainly allowed with Sparpreise through use of the stop-over function.
Die Mobilitätsangebote der Bahn (a DB guide to tickets: http://www.bahn.de/p/view/mdb/bahni...MDB105266-mobilitaetsangebote_gesamt_2012.pdf) says:

Break of journey is possible if it is booked definitively with the rail connection.
This however does not refer to the specific situation you are interested in.
The answer to your question is an important one, as starting short is often advantageous on the German network.
I can enquire at a staffed station if that would help.

Thanks for the info, oscar.
I've got a bit of German but not enough to interpret Terms and Conditions!
It's not vital to know just yet, I was planning a trip but it may actually be at a later date.
The DB tickets seem to be more flexible than ours in other ways too, for instance you are not obliged to book a specific seat on the chosen train.

 

[blackfive460]

The safest solution (unless starting short is definitely allowed) would be to try to book the journey including a stopover at Basel Bad Bhf.
However, from what I can see, you'll need to make sure that the journey (that you aren't going to take) from Freiburg is with an ICE, IC or EC as, if the connection is on an RE, only full price fares appear.
I can see a 63€ Europa-Spezial Italien fare leaving Freiburg at 08:02 on ICE5 by putting in a 1 hour stopover at Basel Bad Bhf. That may be your best bet!

 

[Golghar]

I think this is the relevant link in English. (Click on Terms of the offer). All it says is

ICE or IC/EC cross-border on at least one section of the DB route; Pre- and post-carriage in local DB trains and in parallel running NE local trains is allowed.

As it is there never seems to be any checking between Basel Bad and Basel SBB. Swiss staff board at Basel SBB. If you board at Basel Bad you just claim you boarded the train at Freiburg and weren't checked. I sure they won't even ask. This isn't like France where you have to get your ticket validated at the point where you start your journey.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think this is the relevant link in English. (Click on Terms of the offer). All it says isAs it is there never seems to be any checking between Basel Bad and Basel SBB. Swiss staff board at Basel SBB. If you board at Basel Bad you just claim you boarded the train at Freiburg and weren't checked. I sure they won't even ask. This isn't like France where you have to get your ticket validated at the point where you start your journey.

Looks good!
The key rule seems to be to cross the German border in a DB long-distance train, which is obviously checked by the booking engine.
I've saved the link for reference.
Many thanks.

 

[Oscar]

It's not vital to know just yet, I was planning a trip but it may actually be at a later date.

It is important that this is cleared up. Here's a list of a few other situations where stopping/starting short can save money:

1. Try a single from Nürnberg Hbf to Leipzig Hbf via Berlin Hbf on 13.11.12 at 09:06 with a stop-over of 8 hours at Berlin Hbf (a double-back along a portion of a route is allowed by DB's journey planner in many situations). Compare to the relevant Sparpreise for a return from Leipzig Hbf to Berlin Hbf.

2. Try Nürnberg Hbf to Bruxelles-Midi at 11:28 on 04.12.12 with a stop-over of 20 minutes at Frankfurt Hbf. Compare to the price to London.

3. Try Fürth Hbf to Ebelsbach-Eltmann (Regionalverkehr/regional services only) for a BahnCard 50 holder on any date (Nürnberg/Fürth - Bamberg/Oberhaid is 9€70 - 10+T zones with no BahnCard discount as this is a VGN fare: for a non-BahnCard holder it would be cheaper to split at Oberhaid than buy the through ticket).
VGN - relevant information not available in English.

4. Try Würzburg Hbf to Furth i Wald (by ICE to Nürnberg and ALX from there) on 13.11.12 at around 13:06 for a BahnCard 25 holder and compare that to the fares from Nürnberg to Furth i Wald.

5. Compare Schaffhausen to Winterthur for a BahnCard 25 or 50 holder buying from DB with the SBB prices (this is not a DB service).

There are many more such situations.

Of course there are also situations in which a change of plan may cause someone to want to stop short.

In your situation SBB's Sparbillett Europa is not available between Basel SBB and Milano Centrale whereas DB's Europa-Spezial is available between Freiburg Hbf and Milano Centrale.

To be honest my impression is that staff are extremely unlikely to be concerned about starting / stopping short.

I think this is the relevant link in English. (Click on Terms of the offer).

That's not the same link I was looking at but it is also relevant.

 

[30907]

DB Sparpreis (Savings Tickets) can certainly be used to start short - I have done it myself, forgoing the non-German part on that occasion! As there is no restriction on which train you use beyond Basel, you should have no problem.

However, the clever thing, as someone has suggested, is to put a "via" of Basel Bad(ischer) and untick ICE/IC for Freiburg-Basel.

The various Europe Special tickets have advantages over internal DB Savings Tickets too - overnight stops up to 2x48 hours, even more flexible routings...

BTW Questions like this often come up on www.drehscheibe-online.de - and if you post there in English (preferably with a suitable "sorry") there you will almost certainly get a reply in better English than most people's German!

 

[Oscar]

DB Sparpreis (Savings Tickets) can certainly be used to start short.

Is there a definitive source for this? Is it mentioned in the DB Beförderungsbedingungen (T&Cs)?

 

[30907]

1. (to the OP) The special T&Cs for this ticket are slightly different from other Europe Specials and therefore you need a reservation into Italy (ignore comment on my first post therefore). My advice would therefore still be to book Freiburg-Basel Bad on Regional trains.

2. The standard conditions for German tickets allow joining late/leaving early/break of journey (like an Anytime BR fare) within the validity period.
These apply to Savings Price and Europe Specials unless the special T&Cs say otherwise.

3. The special T&Cs refer to Zugbindung (using specified IC/ICE trains) and to specified break of jouney. They do not mention joining late/leaving early, therefore this is allowed.

Hope this helps!

If you want the full details, the terms and conditions for DB tickets are all downloadable here (in German).
http://www.bahn.de/p/view/home/agb/befoerderungsbedingungen/befoerderungsbedingungen.shtml

For Europe Special Italy you need page 55 of this one:
http://www.bahn.de/p/view/mdb/bahnintern/agb/international2012/mdb_90902_scic-sonderbestimmungen_17-09-12.pdf

 

[Oscar]

2. The standard conditions for German tickets allow joining late/leaving early/break of journey (like an Anytime BR fare) within the validity period.
These apply to Savings Price and Europe Specials unless the special T&Cs say otherwise.

Do the DB Beförderungsbedingungen themselves refer to stopping/starting short or break of journey? I don't think they do but of course without this being forbidden it must be allowed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Some interesting responses on Drehscheibe-Foren:
- debate over whether stopping/starting short is allowed.
- allegedly when using split tickets and delays cause a connection to be missed the validity of a second Sparpreis is guaranteed but compensation is only paid out on the ticket where the delay occurred.
Thread: http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/foren/read.php?3,6089671,6089671#msg-6089671

Pages 29 and 30 of 30907's second link give the T&Cs for London-Spezial tickets. Apparently the next possible ICE or Eurostar from Brussels must always be taken and longer stops in Brussels are not permitted.

 

[30907]

Despite the T&Cs (which have always said no break of journey is permitted) the booking system for London Special works exactly the same as for other Europe Specials: ie you can make two stops of up to 48 hours each, including in Liege or Brussels.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

1. (to the OP) The special T&Cs for this ticket are slightly different from other Europe Specials and therefore you need a reservation into Italy (ignore comment on my first post therefore). My advice would therefore still be to book Freiburg-Basel Bad on Regional trains.

2. The standard conditions for German tickets allow joining late/leaving early/break of journey (like an Anytime BR fare) within the validity period.
These apply to Savings Price and Europe Specials unless the special T&Cs say otherwise.

3. The special T&Cs refer to Zugbindung (using specified IC/ICE trains) and to specified break of jouney. They do not mention joining late/leaving early, therefore this is allowed.
Hope this helps!

Do the DB Beförderungsbedingungen themselves refer to stopping/starting short or break of journey? I don't think they do but of course without this being forbidden it must be allowed.

Thanks both, excellent advice.
Nice to know the railway bureaucracies of all nations are fit and well!

Oscar's note reminds me of the old joke about what is supposed to be forbidden in Paris is in fact allowed, and what is supposed to be allowed in Moscow is actually forbidden!
(London supposedly being allowed/allowed and forbidden/forbidden).
Since the joke was coined I think London has moved a bit nearer to Moscow rather than Paris...

In my original OP I didn't say that my overall journey was from Basel to St Raphael via Milan and Genova.
Nobody wants to sell me a ticket for the whole journey (except SNCF but via Avignon), and I think it will in any case be much cheaper to split up the journey, hence the Basel-Milan plan!
Looks like I can do Milan-Ventimigla for a masssive €9.