December 2019 timetable change.

[Tracked]

Trains from Doncaster to Sheffield this morning:

05:59 St Pancras (Non Stop)
06:03 Lincoln (Non Stop)
06:06 Sheffield (Stopper)
06:12 Sheffield (Meadowhall only)

Nearly as many in 13 minutes as there are between 7 and 8am?

Back to Doncaster from Sheffield seems to have 4 trains arriving with 25 minutes, a ten minute gap, then a 25 minute gap too ...

 

[Andyh82]

Following the timetable change in May 2018, I get the feeling the media will run negative stories every timetable change now, it’ll be a new regular story like whenever the fares go up.

Even if everything works well with the actual timetable, there will always be some delays or cancellations to latch onto and blame on the new timetable.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

i was and bow to you knowledge about him. But he still re-let franchises and the system was pretty much the same as it is now

The law says there will be franchises and that they are let periodically to the private sector.
Ministers don't get to change that unless there is new legislation.
Labour did change the structure of the industry (Network Rail, SRA, ORR, some devolution etc) but never altered that 1993 franchising law.
For example, LNER cannot stay in public ownership indefinitely.
New legislation will probably be coming with the Williams review, but although it might change the franchising process, it is unlikely to exclude the private sector.

 

[jamesst]

Are the cancellations on Northern due to the new timetable, or just the same level they generally are every Monday?

Also Northern always get the press coverage because they are much bigger than TPE, in as much as 1% of Northern services would be a much more dramatic number than if it was 3% of TPE.

The powers that be at TPE must have friends in the media, I cant think of any other reason why they escape so much of the coverage Northern get

 

[Failed Unit]

Following the timetable change in May 2018, I get the feeling the media will run negative stories every timetable change now, it’ll be a new regular story like whenever the fares go up.

Even if everything works well with the actual timetable, there will always be some delays or cancellations to latch onto and blame on the new timetable.

Not really. GTR are keeping out the press. We have a new timetable (minor changes) and some cancellations (failed 700s and driver shortages) - but no story. Likewise I am not seeing much press about the bigger change over on great western.

 

[Edders23]

But my point is TPE shouldn’t have introduced a timetable the couldn’t resource. This isn’t May 2018. We should have learned lessons and not blindly gone on and made the same mistake again.

maybe they were expecting to be ready but by the time they realised they weren't it was too late to cancel the implementation ?

 

[brompton rail]

Trains from Doncaster to Sheffield this morning:

05:59 St Pancras (Non Stop)
06:03 Lincoln (Non Stop)
06:06 Sheffield (Stopper)
06:12 Sheffield (Meadowhall only)

Nearly as many in 13 minutes as there are between 7 and 8am?

Back to Doncaster from Sheffield seems to have 4 trains arriving with 25 minutes, a ten minute gap, then a 25 minute gap too ...

The 0603 Lincoln didn’t run!

 

[Failed Unit]

maybe they were expecting to be ready but by the time they realised they weren't it was too late to cancel the implementation ?

Then they definitely haven’t learned anything from 2018. This was predicted by “old timers” back when the orders were placed.

 

[scotrail158713]

Following the timetable change in May 2018, I get the feeling the media will run negative stories every timetable change now, it’ll be a new regular story like whenever the fares go up.

Even if everything works well with the actual timetable, there will always be some delays or cancellations to latch onto and blame on the new timetable.

I think you’re right. I wasn’t surprised to see an article like this.

 

[Tracked]

The 0603 Lincoln didn’t run!

Once they get their act together it will, unless they're planning on cancelling one of the 3 services on some sort of a rota

 

[darloscott]

Following the timetable change in May 2018, I get the feeling the media will run negative stories every timetable change now, it’ll be a new regular story like whenever the fares go up.

Even if everything works well with the actual timetable, there will always be some delays or cancellations to latch onto and blame on the new timetable.

Unfortunately the industry as a whole has allowed this to be possible.

 

[Bevan Price]

No evidence I am aware of that the timetable was late being distributed or is unworkable so I suggest NR is "innocent" this time. Lack of (trained) traincrew to run planned services is a TOC issue. There could be an issue with commissioning of new TPE stock.

TPE have been becoming more unreliable for months - nothing to do with this week's timetable change.

 

[coppercapped]

The law says there will be franchises and that they are let periodically to the private sector.
Ministers don't get to change that unless there is new legislation.
Labour did change the structure of the industry (Network Rail, SRA, ORR, some devolution etc) but never altered that 1993 franchising law.
For example, LNER cannot stay in public ownership indefinitely.
New legislation will probably be coming with the Williams review, but although it might change the franchising process, it is unlikely to exclude the private sector.

The Railways Act may not have been changed, but the way the DfT sets the ground rules and runs the franchising competitions is a world away from the approach that OPRAF (Office for Passenger Rail Franchising) took between 1995 and 1997.

About the only thing in common with those early days is the word 'franchise'.

 

[Boysteve]

According to the Northern Fail app we have suffered the following number of cancellations;

Friday 13th December; 174 full / 156 part
Saturday 14th December; 285 full / 159 part
Sunday 15th December*; 163 full / 68 part
Monday 16th December; 182 full / 114 part (might still creep up a little)
*I am not sure if the Sunday pre-cancelled services are included on this number,

This strongly suggests that Northern's problems are NOT new timetable related, but are just a continuation of the abysmal service they have been providing for the last couple of months.

 

[timothyw9]

TPE have been becoming more unreliable for months - nothing to do with this week's timetable change.

TPEs been pretty dire since October, ran fairly smoothly in the summer months.

IMO, whilst I haven't worked during it yet, this new timetable seems pretty dire.

They had the rather intuitive idea to inter-work the Newcastle & Middlesbrough diagrams together at the airport which gave plenty of slack for any delays heading to Manchester. Now because of the new stock they can't do that anymore, which means they'll either terminate at Piccadilly or arrive late from the Airport.

Going for a clock-face timetable at MCV/LDS isn't a terrible idea. The re-jigging of the timetable at Piccadilly is pretty awful though. Previously if the xx35 MIA-NCL service was cancelled you could get passengers on the xx47 MAN-HUL service and change at Huddersfield for the LIV-NCL service. Good look trying to do that now if they cancel it at short notice. (Departs at 30/35).

Not to mention the whole joining and splitting with the Cleethorpes/Airport services on an already impossible schedule. That and some passengers at Piccadilly get quite confused when the xx07 MIA and xx18 CLE are both on Platform 9. Can't see either service running on time now.

 

[EM2]

Even if everything works well with the actual timetable, there will always be some delays or cancellations to latch onto and blame on the new timetable.

The article in the OP makes it clear that the timetable is not at fault.

Rail commuters in the north of England have been hit by cancellations and delays as new winter timetables were launched.

Northern had cancelled 19 trains by 10:00 GMT and 31 were delayed, which it said was down to "operational issues" rather than the timetable change.

Transpennine Express also cancelled 29 services on Monday morning.

The issues largely affected commuters in Yorkshire, Greater Manchester, Lancashire and Merseyside.

Transpennine Express services hit included those linking Manchester Airport with Edinburgh and Newcastle, and trains from Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough.

The firm's managing director Leo Goodwin said he was "really sorry" for the disruption to customers at such a busy time of year.

He said: "Due to a number of issues with crew training caused by the late delivery of some of our new trains, along with a maintenance backlog and some infrastructure issues we have had to implement a temporary timetable, cancelling some journeys along one of our routes."

Northern services which were affected were between Blackpool North and Manchester Airport, from Leeds to York and Sheffield, and Darlington to Saltburn.

A spokesperson for the rail firm said: "Very few of our services have seen any changes as a result of the timetable coming in.

"The small number of delays and cancellations are due to operational issues including driver sickness, signalling failure and train faults."
...
Transpennine is running a pre-planned temporary reduced timetable on some routes as a maintenance backlog and infrastructure problems have delayed staff training on new trains.

Its managing director Mr Goodwin said as new trains were introduced improvements to services would be made.

 

[Boysteve]

TPEs been pretty dire since October, ran fairly smoothly in the summer months.
They had the rather intuitive idea to inter-work the Newcastle & Middlesbrough diagrams together at the airport which gave plenty of slack for any delays heading to Manchester. Now because of the new stock they can't do that anymore, which means they'll either terminate at Piccadilly or arrive late from the Airport.

But Manchester Airport bound the Middlesborough (now Redcar) and Newcastle have been swapped. It's xx43 from Newcastle now rather than xx15. With some extra padding this means that turnarounds are ~30 minutes at MIA. They now have the timetable they should have started with in May 2018 on this particular point in my opinion.

 

[scrapy]

But Manchester Airport bound the Middlesborough (now Redcar) and Newcastle have been swapped. It's xx43 from Newcastle now rather than xx15. With some extra padding this means that turnarounds are ~30 minutes at MIA. They now have the timetable they should have started with in May 2018 on this particular point in my opinion.

The problem is when you start having trains with turnarounds of over 30 minutes train operators use them to fit PNBs. On the new timetables Northern have some ~40 minute turnarounds at Southport. Great! But they can now fit in a 30 minute PNB plus 5 minutes to dispose of the unit so a train may have 40 minutes but it will still run late back if it's more than 5 minutes late arriving, making it less resilient than the 8 minutes the old timetable had. Whether there's resilience in unit planning means nothing if work in train crew diagrams is crammed so tight.

 

[Class195]

There is a train from Bradford to Leeds at around 53 mins past?

There’s the 31 past to Hull and 56 to Leeds, so 25 minutes (nearly half an hour).

 

[Grumpy Git]

What is a PNB?

Is it something to do with staff breaks?

 

[transmanche]

What is a PNB? Is it something to do with staff breaks?

Yes, I believe it stands for Personal Needs Break.

 

[Boysteve]

The problem is when you start having trains with turnarounds of over 30 minutes train operators use them to fit PNBs. On the new timetables Northern have some ~40 minute turnarounds at Southport. Great! But they can now fit in a 30 minute PNB plus 5 minutes to dispose of the unit so a train may have 40 minutes but it will still run late back if it's more than 5 minutes late arriving, making it less resilient than the 8 minutes the old timetable had. Whether there's resilience in unit planning means nothing if work in train crew diagrams is crammed so tight

Actually the North East TPEx service have turnarounds of 27 minutes and 29 minutes in the new timetable thus removing the issue you fear!

 

[daikilo]

But TPE now have a cancellation excuse that they would have had to substitue an AT300 with a 185 which can't meet the 125mph timings on the ECML. Why they cannot turnback at York after running the Trans-Pennine section is not explained.

 

[Wombat]

You must have missed the shedloads of money given to Network Rail in the last 10 years or so.
It's not the government's fault that NR made such a hash of the upgrades (which cost £11 billion in CP5, of which they haven't even delivered the cut-down version yet).
Then there's the loads of money gone on new trains (much of it contracted by DfT, eg 70x, 80x).
Again, it's not HMG's fault if the output is not working as expected.
And then there's Crossrail (£17 billion and still counting), of which NR has a sizeable chunk either side of the core.

How's it not the government's fault? It's the DfT's job to ensure that the national transport network functions well, and the government is ultimately accountable if it doesn't. This includes the performance of private organisations (TOCs, bus companies, etc) as well as public bodies like NR. If any of them are failing to deliver, it's down to the government to implement whatever changes are required to sort them out. In this case, that means fixing whatever combination of management, governance, technical, budgetary and/or other problems are causing the current issues at NR.

Easier said than done, of course, but these people wanted to be in government and they don't get to shirk their responsibilities by claiming that the job which they applied for is difficult.

 

[railways45021]

TPE Cancellations due to faults and lack of train crew I'm wondering if it has ever been this bad before with new stock being released in the past? I also wonder how TPE didn't train all of its train crew in time for this timetable and is this another timetable crisis like in may 2018