December 2025 East Coast Timetable

[Manutd1999]

Why does the pattern change after about 16h? Leeds departures from London are at xx10 and xx40 but then change to a random assortment of xx03, xx39, xx08 etc. The xx03 to Edinburgh also moves to xx00 at 16h, with a Hull service moving to xx10. A bit strange.....

 

[TheBigD]

Why does the pattern change after about 16h? Leeds departures from London are at xx10 and xx40 but then change to a random assortment of xx03, xx39, xx08 etc. The xx03 to Edinburgh also moves to xx00 at 16h, with a Hull service moving to xx10. A bit strange.....

To enable more suburban trains to run in the peaks. Happens currently with the xx06 LNER departure from KGX moved to xx18 in the evening peak.

 

[Manutd1999]

The xx00 Hull Trains services also seem to be looped by the xx03 between Retford and Doncaster? Bit of a strange decision seeing as these services get out of the way soon after Doncaster anyway, btu maybe it's needed for pathing further north?

 

[Bald Rick]

I suspect there will be loads of complaints once this gets further distributed. No services from Newark to Retford will not go down well (even if there are very few travrllers).

Which poses an important philosophical question:

When a train service that no-one uses is removed from the timetable, does anyone hear the noise made by those that don’t use it?

 

[Failed Unit]

I suspect there will be loads of complaints once this gets further distributed. No services from Newark to Retford will not go down well (even if there are very few travrllers).

The service between these 2 was always poor. In fact having the bi-hourly service was probably the best service the town had.

However with the price of parking and level of fares rail has no interest in this market.

Another example of journey between 2 stations next to each others that is nearly impossible to do.

 

[MikeWM]

Need to look at this properly, but the first thing I notice is that on Sunday the first train south from Ely is proposed to be at 0817 (0745 off Kings Lynn). Still seems a bit late, but it's quite an improvement over the current 0857, which I have a moan about every timetable change.

And departures at x17 all Sunday will presumably spread out the service slightly (assuming GA and XC times stay the same), which is welcome given the current situation of 3 southbound services an hour but all squashed into a 10-minute window, leaving a 50 minute gap every hour.

 

[weeklycommuter]

I suspect there will be loads of complaints once this gets further distributed. No services from Newark to Retford will not go down well (even if there are very few travrllers).

Which poses an important philosophical question:
When a train service that no-one uses is removed from the timetable, does anyone hear the noise made by those that don’t use it?

A more practical question is what will they do about tickets Newark to and from Retford if there are no longer any direct trains between the two stations in the December 2025 timetable? The tickets currently appear to be only valid for direct trains between these two stations.

 

[westv]

How similar is this new timetable to the ECML one that was put forward but then withdrawn a few years ago?

 

[James90012]

Same structure as I understand but my main concern with the original plan - calls at Darlington and Northallerton - are improved in this variation. Previously Northallerton was to be moved into CrossCountry and London trains reduced at Darlington.

Durham to Edinburgh might be a bit of an issue from a fares and capacity perspective unless LNER offer advance fare connections - looking to random dates in January LNER offers considerably cheaper advance fares than CrossCountry which makes sense as CrossCountry have considerably fewer seats to fill.

 

[Failed Unit]

The whole thing on the Great Northern Peaks seems to impact another flow which may or may-not be significant but just made me think last night.

At Kings Cross the 1754 Kings Cross - Letchworth left about half full, the 1757 Kings Cross - Cambridge left nearly full and was full upon departure at Finsbury Park. This will force a change onto the little villages between Royston and Cambridge if they are travelling to Finsbury Park. Probably not a large demand. I can see why the change is proposed as it will balance loadings between the 2 trains but I have noticed now a significant number of people use Finsbury Park (It was never small) probably down to the fact it is better to change there onto Thameslink if your train isn't direct.

 

[Manutd1999]

Same structure as I understand but my main concern with the original plan - calls at Darlington and Northallerton - are improved in this variation.

Which does beg the question as to why it's taken the industry 5+ years to agree this.....

 

[InOban]

Because the freight TOCs weren't and I think aren't, happy

 

[Class15]

Because the freight TOCs weren't and I think aren't, happy

Did they eventually agree or was the new Timetable forced through without consulting the FOCs? I’ve always been of the opinion that improvements to passenger services should take priority over freight trains but that isn’t the official policy I don’t think.

 

[Manutd1999]

Because the freight TOCs weren't and I think aren't, happy

But the fundamentals haven't changed - the freight TOCs would have been equally happy/unhappy if the same decisions had been made at the start of this process. Instead we've had years of dither and delay which benefits nobody.

 

[nr758123]

When a train service that no-one uses is removed from the timetable, does anyone hear the noise made by those that don’t use it?

Possibly yes. The withdrawal of a facility often generates noise from people who never use it but like the idea that it's there.

In a non-railway context, when Stalybridge Market Hall was down to its last three stalls and the council proposed its closure, there was a lengthy petition signed by non-users. If even 5% of the signatories had actually used the market, then it would never have declined to the level where closure was the only option.

 

[cuccir]

Disappointed. No interest in north east commuters at all. Only 2 trains north from Durham and Chester le Street between 8 and 9, and indeed only 1 between 08:07 and 09:09. A 30+ minute gap between the 08:08 and 08:39 north from Durham, which is crap for people wanting to arrive for 9. Then 4 trains between 09:09 and 09:29, 3 of which will terminate in Newcastle and will carry empty air.

 

[3RDGEN]

How similar is this new timetable to the ECML one that was put forward but then withdrawn a few years ago?

On the webpage "https://ecmltimetable.info/consultation-feedback" there's details of actions taken since consultation on the 2021 version.

 

[YorksLad12]

The 2 car Leeds to Nottingham service always looks rammed whenever I see it going north and south.

It's possible that some of the Leeds-Sheffield passengers will transfer to the new fast service (if they've any sense!). I would, if I was still commuting to Sheffield then; it also gives me flexibility in my arrival and departure times, which I don't really have now with just the CrossCountry service every hour.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Somewhat surprising that those new fast Sheffield/Wakefield W/Leeds services don’t stop at Meadowhall.

 

[duffield]

Somewhat surprising that those new fast Sheffield/Wakefield W/Leeds services don’t stop at Meadowhall.

Seems like a good idea to me. Meadowhall already has services every few minutes, this will be one NT Sheffield/Leeds that doesn't have Meadowhall passengers and so will have more room for the rest of us who aren't going there!

 

[Halish Railway]

Seems like a good idea to me. Meadowhall already has services every few minutes, this will be one NT Sheffield/Leeds that doesn't have Meadowhall passengers and so will have more room for the rest of us who aren't going there!

The pathing probably wouldn’t work given that there’s going to be quite a tight turnaround at Leeds (7 minutes away with a 38 past arrival and 45 past departure). Leaving Sheffield a few minutes earlier doesn’t look to be possible either given that the departure time from Sheffield is all over the place, with there being 45, 48 and 51 past departures, in line with the inconsistent departure times of the Reading to Newcastle trains.

One thing about these trains is that the Leeds to Sheffield travel times is a bit longer than those of CrossCountry’s services, taking about 45 minutes instead of 40 minutes, so Northern will have much more flexibility in what rolling stock they allocate to the service (2 units). Hopefully they use 158s or even 170s to mix things up. A two carriage 158 still has a decent amount of capacity, more than that of a two carriage 195.

 

[higthomas]

By far the most important flow to/from the branch is Kings Cross-Cambridge.

Hmm, I'm surprised that given that there seems to be absolutely no improvement to the Cambridge services; no speed improvements, no frequency improvements for trains people doing en-end would actually use, no earlier/later trains.

 

[Magdalia]

Hmm, I'm surprised that given that there seems to be absolutely no improvement to the Cambridge services; no speed improvements, no frequency improvements for trains people doing en-end would actually use, no earlier/later trains.

I see 2 significant improvements.

One is the opening of Cambridge South station with a timetable that has all GN trains calling there, and with no significant impact on overall journey times. Kings Cross-Cambridge off peak is still 50 minutes 2tph. That's a massive win.

The other is that the new Cambridge-Kings Cross semi-fast peak trains are an increase in frequency, capacity and resilience. I'm not up early enough to use the morning trains but I will be using them in the evening. They are going to be particularly useful when Thameslink goes belly-up!

Further speed and frequency improvements are not going to be coming without major infrastructure improvements, because the branch has a lot of operating constraints:

• it is a 2 track railway for 23 miles Hitchin-Shepreth Branch Junction
• it has 7 intermediate stations
• it has 6 level crossings, 4 of which are AHB
• it has 2 significant intermediate speed restrictions at Royston and Shepreth

Cambridge already has one of the shortest overnight breaks in service. Going up the first Thameslink will be at 0451, the first "Cruiser" at 0542, and the last up train at 2351. Going down the first train will be at 0501 (that must be the earliest since the 0400 papers from Liverpool Street finished), the first "Cruiser" at 0554, and the last train at 0031. On a 2 track railway there has to be some overnight closure for essential maintenance, it is never going to be a 24 hour service. Most rail users in other parts of the country will wonder why you are moaning about these early starts and late finishes being somehow not good enough.

 

[A S Leib]

Going up the first Thameslink will be at 0451, the first "Cruiser" at 0542, and the last up train at 2351. Going down the first train will be at 0501 (that must be the earliest since the 0400 papers from Liverpool Street finished), the first "Cruiser" at 0554, and the last train at 0031.

The first London train from Oxford's at 05:20, arriving at Paddington at 06:12, with it possible to get there twenty minutes earlier using the 03:55 to Reading. The last train back from London's also at 00:31. Purely by train, I think the only stations in the southeast with shorter weekday night gaps are WCML stations to Milton Keynes Central and (most of) those on the Bedford – Three Bridges route.

 

[thenorthern]

I know it won't matter soon if Great British Railways is formed but one thing I don't understand is why the semi-fast Newcastle - Berwick - Edinburgh trains are operated by Transpennie Express. I know originally it was going to be a Liverpool to Edinburgh via Newcastle operated by TPE but then Covid hit so it reverted to being a Liverpool to Newcastle service as well as the Newcastle to Edinburgh shuttle.

Given that there is already Scotrail operating from Edinburgh to Dunbar and Northern operating from Newcastle to Morpeth/Chathill surely it would make more sense to have a single operator for the local/semi-fast services from Newcastle to Edinburgh.

 

[A S Leib]

Given that there is already Scotrail operating from Edinburgh to Dunbar and Northern operating from Newcastle to Morpeth/Chathill surely it would make more sense to have a single operator for the local/semi-fast services from Newcastle to Edinburgh.

At least for now, I think the Morpeth terminators go through to Hexham / Carlisle. Do the Dunbar services interwork with North Berwick ones?

 

[swt_passenger]

I know it won't matter soon if Great British Railways is formed but one thing I don't understand is why the semi-fast Newcastle - Berwick - Edinburgh trains are operated by Transpennie Express. I know originally it was going to be a Liverpool to Edinburgh via Newcastle operated by TPE but then Covid hit so it reverted to being a Liverpool to Newcastle service as well as the Newcastle to Edinburgh shuttle.

Given that there is already Scotrail operating from Edinburgh to Dunbar and Northern operating from Newcastle to Morpeth/Chathill surely it would make more sense to have a single operator for the local/semi-fast services from Newcastle to Edinburgh.

Why not just get the main ECML operator to run them? That way there’s no need for either Scotrail or Northern to worry about a micro fleet, just transfer the 802s and crews and they're practically the same as LNER 800s.

 

[Acfb]

At least for now, I think the Morpeth terminators go through to Hexham / Carlisle. Do the Dunbar services interwork with North Berwick ones?

Yes, the Dunbar services do interwork with North Berwick services.

 

[800001]

I know it won't matter soon if Great British Railways is formed but one thing I don't understand is why the semi-fast Newcastle - Berwick - Edinburgh trains are operated by Transpennie Express. I know originally it was going to be a Liverpool to Edinburgh via Newcastle operated by TPE but then Covid hit so it reverted to being a Liverpool to Newcastle service as well as the Newcastle to Edinburgh shuttle.

Given that there is already Scotrail operating from Edinburgh to Dunbar and Northern operating from Newcastle to Morpeth/Chathill surely it would make more sense to have a single operator for the local/semi-fast services from Newcastle to Edinburgh.

The 802s are based at Craigentinny, this service rotates the units through Craigy for Maintenance.

Do LNER have enough drivers to operate this service?

How would the units interwork with TransPennine etc?

Simpler to keep it as is with TPE.

 

[InOban]

Rather than Lumo extending their services to Glasgow, as has been suggested it would be better to extend these TPE services to Glasgow creating a regular Glasgow to Newcastle schedule. XC could then drop their remaining Glasgow trains.