December 2025 Timetable Change

[A S Leib]

Heard this from a guard who works the route - said that northern are looking to increase KNO-GOO section to 4 trains per day, whether this means inserting an additional southbound train or 4 in each direction I wouldn’t know, just something to note

Knottingley to Goole, I'm guessing from context?

 

[bigmanaiq]

Knottingley to Goole, I'm guessing from context?

Yep

 

[30907]

Yep

Welcome aboard.

Forum convention/rule is to use full station names the first time they occur. Ditto with acronyms, abbreviations etc - not that we always do

 

[DDB]

There is expected to be quite a shakeup to the EMR regional services as discussed in another thread on here. I'm waiting impatiently to find out how much later promised later trains are and whether the swapping around of where the Derby-Nottingham services serve West of Derby and East of Nottingham also means substantial retiming of the Derby-Nottingham section.

 

[SeanM1997]

Is the EMR Crewe - Newark extension to Lincoln due for December 2025?

The next 12 months could be quite significant for Crewe's connectivity (already amazing connections) with 4 planned routes:
- EMR extension to Lincoln (Crewe-Newark)
- WMR extension to Manchester Airport (Crewe-Stafford)
- LNWR extension to Manchester Victoria via Warrington Bank Quay (Crewe-London Euston)
- New Lumo service between Stirling, Preston and London Euston

 

[The Planner]

Is the EMR Crewe - Newark extension to Lincoln due for December 2025?

The next 12 months could be quite significant for Crewe's connectivity (already amazing connections) with 4 planned routes:
- EMR extension to Lincoln (Crewe-Newark)
- WMR extension to Manchester Airport (Crewe-Stafford)
- LNWR extension to Manchester Victoria via Warrington Bank Quay (Crewe-London Euston)
- New Lumo service between Stirling, Preston and London Euston

WMR won't be going to the airport or Victoria until Dec 26 at the earliest. Lumo will likely be May 26.

 

[cle]

Is the EMR Crewe - Newark extension to Lincoln due for December 2025?

The next 12 months could be quite significant for Crewe's connectivity (already amazing connections) with 4 planned routes:
- EMR extension to Lincoln (Crewe-Newark)
- WMR extension to Manchester Airport (Crewe-Stafford)
- LNWR extension to Manchester Victoria via Warrington Bank Quay (Crewe-London Euston)
- New Lumo service between Stirling, Preston and London Euston

It’s not the prettiest place, but really, Crewe should see some crazy development - both dense apartments and MK sprawl.
It’s incredibly well connected and after HS2 will be the only place where you might be able to work in London, Manchester or Birmingham, with a workable commute. Plus a lot of the Cheshire tech / campus type locations.

Might also be a smart place for certain types of businesses, or those which could do some consolidation of locations.

 

[A S Leib]

after HS2 will be the only place where you might be able to work in London, Manchester or Birmingham, with a workable commute

Stafford or Stoke-on-Trent? That part of the country, at any rate.

 

[SeanM1997]

It’s not the prettiest place, but really, Crewe should see some crazy development - both dense apartments and MK sprawl.
It’s incredibly well connected and after HS2 will be the only place where you might be able to work in London, Manchester or Birmingham, with a workable commute. Plus a lot of the Cheshire tech / campus type locations.

Might also be a smart place for certain types of businesses, or those which could do some consolidation of locations.

Not just London, Manchester and Birmingham - but also Liverpool, Chester, Preston and Manchester Airport - which are advantageous for any business. Even more if the Middlewich Branch Line ever got reopened (freight only at the moment), as Mid Cheshire has very poor north-south connections which that line could help in addressing

Back to discussion: Having a Lincoln direct service to Crewe will mean one train covers the WCML, MML and ECML - which should be a corridor of national interest with more than just a local, hourly service. This new route will really spread the geographic reach from Crewe

 

[The exile]

Back to discussion: Having a Lincoln direct service to Crewe will mean one train covers the WCML, MML and ECML - which should be a corridor of national interest with more than just a local, hourly service.

It's been deemed enough (by the planners) for many years for that other service which links WCML, MML, ECML, WAML and GEML - Liverpool to Norwich.

 

[A S Leib]

It's been deemed enough (by the planners) for many years for that other service which links WCML, MML, ECML, WAML and GEML - Liverpool to Norwich.

I don't think either service needs to be more than hourly*, but almost all of them being two carriages feels rather unambitious.

*Apart from maybe between Derby and Stoke-on-Trent, the only section without any other services, even if changing at Tamworth can work out quicker for Derby to Crewe.

Edit: new post on this topic.

 

[Benjwri]

The journey is so slow anyway, it's hardly what you'd call an express service.

Some London services call at Hayle and Lostwithiel anyway

Given the fuss that has been kicked up about an extra few minutes to stop at Old Oak Common, I think any slowing will cause problems.

 

[cle]

I don't think either service needs to be more than hourly*, but almost all of them being two carriages feels rather unambitious.

*Apart from maybe between Derby and Stoke-on-Trent, the only section without any other services, even if changing at Tamworth can work out quicker for Derby to Crewe.

It does feel like an underused corridor which maybe could be more strategic - where most of the e/w routes north of there are 'mountainous' and winding.

Getting onto the WCML more easily would be better - it aligns to the Manchester route best, which is the one it needs the least (ie. better to go via Stoke!) - but Weaver routes might be more useful and original.

 

[A S Leib]

I'd like there to be an earlier Newcastle to Edinburgh service; the December 2019 timetable had a 05:53 TransPennine Express service arriving at 07:30, but 08:07 is the earliest arrival now.

It being reinstated wouldn't make an earlier arrival in Inverness possible, it would be necessary to get to Stirling by 07:30 or Perth by eight for the Inverness service before the current first itinerary of the day for Newcastle to Inverness. An Edinburgh to Aberdeen leaves at 07:30, so I'd guess that the lack of useful connections and low demand to be in Edinburgh itself (or Glasgow, already possible by 09:16) that early have stopped it from coming back.

 

[Kite159]

I don't think either service needs to be more than hourly*, but almost all of them being two carriages feels rather unambitious.

*Apart from maybe between Derby and Stoke-on-Trent, the only section without any other services, even if changing at Tamworth can work out quicker for Derby to Crewe.

Edit: new post on this topic.

At a larger cost compared to the "Via Stoke-on-Trent" fares for Derby - Crewe. Although some connections at Tamworth can be absolutely awful and it's an awful station to wait around at

 

[Bevan Price]

Hopefully - at some time - Liverpool - Newton Le Willows stopping service restored to 2 tph all day.

And sort out "Northern" Sunday local services to stop numerous 2 hour+ gaps in services out of Liverpool.