Declassified first class on SWR - Waterloo to Surbiton

[ATrainSpotter]

Hi, just wondering which services have declassified first class with SWR. I’m specifically looking for the fast trains between Waterloo and Surbiton (ie. the Alton service and I believe the Baskingstoke service).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hi, just wondering which services have declassified first class with SWR.

Class 450s on London Waterloo to Reading, Windsor and Weybridge.
Class 458s have seating which was formerly first class at the ends of 458501-530 only.

the Alton service and I believe the Baskingstoke service).

Not a single one of these services is declassified under normal circumstances. Some are 444s though, if you're looking to do the journey in 2+2 seating or something.

between Waterloo and Surbiton

0620, 1702, 1732 and 1802 are non stop 450s from London Waterloo to Surbiton (continuing to Guildford) on which first class should be declassified.

0620 and 1732 from London Waterloo to Guildford via Weybridge should be 12-450.
1702 and 1802 should be 8-450.

 

[TEW]

0620 and 1732 from London Waterloo to Guildford via Weybridge should be 12-450.
1702 and 1802 should be 8-450.

The peak time Woking services which run fast Waterloo to Surbiton and vice versa do advertise First Class available however. The 0620 doesn't.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The peak time Woking services which run fast Waterloo to Surbiton and vice versa do advertise First Class available however. The 0620 doesn't.

I see, thanks, so yes, it would seem other than the 0620 all 450 services through Surbiton have first class in working order.

 

[TEW]

I see, thanks, so yes, it would seem other than the 0620 all 450 services through Surbiton have first class in working order.

The 2320 and Fridays and Saturdays Only 0037 are also 450s and have declassified First Class.

 

[ATrainSpotter]

Not a single one of these services is declassified under normal circumstances. Some are 444s though, if you're looking to do the journey in 2+2 seating or something.

Do these not include the middle sections (ie where the train has been coupled) and rear as declassified then, unlike Thameslink which has all rear declassified?

0620, 1702, 1732 and 1802 are non stop 450s from London Waterloo to Surbiton (continuing to Guildford) on which first class should be declassified

Thanks, how about the reverse?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Thanks, how about the reverse?

No, please disregard these, as @TEW , who knows what he's talking about when it comes to SWR, has just clarified that actually first class IS in use on these trains.

Do these not include the middle sections (ie where the train has been coupled) and rear as declassified then, unlike Thameslink which has all rear declassified?

Why on earth would they? Thameslink and outer-suburban SWR are completely different operations. In fact, the Alton Line is classed as a mainline route in terms of ticketing.

 

[TEW]

If you're really desperate for declassified First Class towards London the 0420 Guildford to Waterloo is a 444 and is advertised as Standard Class only.

 

[ATrainSpotter]

Why on earth would they? Thameslink and outer-suburban SWR are completely different operations. In fact, the Alton Line is classed as a mainline route in terms of ticketing.

Thameslink still has first class declassified at the rear even on the Brighton Mainline, and I’m not sure about the other govia ran services (such as southern), but I believe they do at the rear too

If you're really desperate for declassified First Class towards London the 0420 Guildford to Waterloo is a 444 and is advertised as Standard Class only.

Not particularly, just wondering if I can sit in FC on a return train after a long day of uni

 

[swt_passenger]

Thameslink still has first class declassified at the rear even on the Brighton Mainline, and I’m not sure about the other govia ran services (such as southern), but I believe they do at the rear too

I believe Thameslink are the only services where one end of a unit is normally declassified, where Southern declassify, eg the 377s in the metro area, it’s the whole train.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Do these not include the middle sections (ie where the train has been coupled) and rear as declassified then, unlike Thameslink which has all rear declassified?

If a service isn't advertised as having first class in the timetable, then any "first class" seating that happens to be installed on the units working that service is declassified by default (or at least that used to be the rule, I can't be 100% certain it still applies).

The Thameslink thing is a different situation- there are "first class" (sarcastic quotation marks) sections at each end of each unit, but only the one at the front (in the direction of travel) is treated as first class for each journey.

With Thameslink it's an operational thing, with the SWR examples it's because those services don't have the option due to not officially offering first class accommodation

 

[boiledbeans2]

On the 7am - 7pm strike days like today, the Woking stopping services are 12.450.

Standard class only according to RTT, an example:

Realtime Trains | 1148 Woking to London Waterloo | 05/11/2022

Real-time train running information for 1148 departure from Woking to London Waterloo on 05/11/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[XAM2175]

Thameslink still has first class declassified at the rear even on the Brighton Mainline, and I’m not sure about the other govia ran services (such as southern), but I believe they do at the rear too

For clarity's sake: Thameslink declassify the rear portion on each Thameslink-operated service because, in their opinion, the Department for Transport forced them to put too many first-class seats into the 700s. They are an outlier in doing this and should not be regarded as having established any form of standard practice that applies to any other operators.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

For clarity's sake: Thameslink declassify the rear portion on each Thameslink-operated service because, in their opinion, the Department for Transport forced them to put too many first-class seats into the 700s. They are an outlier in doing this and should not be regarded as having established any form of standard practice that applies to any other operators.

Yes, I was about to say they should strictly be viewed as the exception rather than the rule.
I have once travelled in the rear first class area of a 171 and heard someone try to tell the guard that as this was a Govia Thameslink Railway train, they were doing as is permitted.

The only flaw with that trick is that anyone who's knowledgable enough to know the proper name of the TOC is more than likely to know the difference between the four sub-brands too!

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, I was about to say they should strictly be viewed as the exception rather than the rule.
I have once travelled in the rear first class area of a 171 and heard someone try to tell the guard that as this was a Govia Thameslink Railway train, they were doing as is permitted.

The only flaw with that trick is that anyone who's knowledgable enough to know the proper name of the TOC is more than likely to know the difference between the four sub-brands too!

He should also have probably been knowledgeable enough to have his penalty fare ready…

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

He should also have probably been knowledgeable enough to have his penalty fare ready…

I can’t remember what happened, I think he was asked to move but not fined. It’s more amusing that he didn’t consider that he could hardly play the ignorant card while stating that he knew he was travelling on a GTR service.

BTW - On a declassified 450, such as on Reading services - automatic announcements now play saying “All accommodation on this train is standard class”

 

[ChewChewTrain]

BTW - On a declassified 450, such as on Reading services - automatic announcements now play saying “All accommodation on this train is standard class”

Most still don’t dare to sit in the “First Class” bits, though, IME, which is fine by me.

A bit like how most drivers don’t go into bus lanes during non-operational times.