So I’ve found out from my last post that I probably can’t be a driver due to my eyesight. However, I still would like to work in the industry and I’ve heard a degree is looked upon favourably. My question though is which degree would be best? I’m aware there are transport related degrees such as Transport Management but I also hear that doing another degree is also highly regarded. Would having a degree in something say Business be better than a Transport Degree or would the latter be the better one to follow?
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Degrees
- Thread starter Mik4156
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Astro_Orbiter
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I would imagine it depends what sort of thing within the railway you'd like to do. For ops, probably a transport specific or even the IRO degree, business or finance roles would require other probably more general and non rail specific experience or skills.
Rockhopper
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How old are you just out of interest?
I think I’d like something more manager oriented. Like a Customer Service Manager or something like that.
kevconnor
Member
Depending your current work, education and experience background you may want to have a look as well at apprenticeships. These can be up to degree level and come with the added benefit of both a qualifications and relent experience by the end of the apprenticeshp.
I did a degree in transport management and planning and (caveat - it was a long time ago) there was very very little railway specific content.
Ultimately it depends what part of the industry you want to work in - many parts are basically similar to equivalent roles in other industries (finance, HR, marketing etc) so there’d be no real need to look beyond the relevant generalist degree. I’d imagine a career in R&D would benefit from an engineering degree or similar
Ultimately it depends what part of the industry you want to work in - many parts are basically similar to equivalent roles in other industries (finance, HR, marketing etc) so there’d be no real need to look beyond the relevant generalist degree. I’d imagine a career in R&D would benefit from an engineering degree or similar
So if that’s not too railway based, which degree specifically do you reckon will be best? I’m not an engineering type person.
I'm tempted to say if you're not looking for a specialism role, don't overthink your degree choice. Employers will want to know how you apply what you learnt to the real world. It's all well and good rocking up with a biology degree, but you're not teaching or discussing biology. Your employer wants to know how you've developed and applied skills to real life situations.
BrokenSam
Member
If you know you can do it without a degree then I feel that's the best option. Forget paying all that student loan money back when you're earning.
Hi Mik
There are quite a few transport related degrees available at Universities. I personally did Transport & Logistics management at Huddersfield and I’m now doing a masters in Railway Operations Management and Policy at Leeds Uni.
I guess it’s really up to what area you would like to work in, many grad schemes for First, Go-Ahead, Abellio don’t actually specify transport/railway specific degrees.
for someone who’s been looking for jobs over the past few months very few roles specify degrees in essential criteria.
There are quite a few transport related degrees available at Universities. I personally did Transport & Logistics management at Huddersfield and I’m now doing a masters in Railway Operations Management and Policy at Leeds Uni.
I guess it’s really up to what area you would like to work in, many grad schemes for First, Go-Ahead, Abellio don’t actually specify transport/railway specific degrees.
for someone who’s been looking for jobs over the past few months very few roles specify degrees in essential criteria.
Any degree to be honest will help you get on to a graduate entry scheme. Even in something like history. It’s not about being qualified in a specific field, rather than having a degree as a whole. Obviously if you want to specialise in Something like engineering or accountancy, the relevant grades will obviously be needed in that respect.
Worth bearing in mind regarding your eyesight, if you want to do any safety critical role, these will require a certain standard of vision, so with anything operational, worth checking.
Worth bearing in mind regarding your eyesight, if you want to do any safety critical role, these will require a certain standard of vision, so with anything operational, worth checking.
Just a suggestion based on something I would probably do if I were in your position.
Work out what kind of job role you wish to have, or think you’d be best suited to, then decide on the TOC(s) that you’d like to work for.
Then head to LinkedIn and try and find some employees of that TOC, or any TOC of that matter and have a look at some of the degrees those people have. It would at least give you an idea of what kind of history previously successful applicants have.
Work out what kind of job role you wish to have, or think you’d be best suited to, then decide on the TOC(s) that you’d like to work for.
Then head to LinkedIn and try and find some employees of that TOC, or any TOC of that matter and have a look at some of the degrees those people have. It would at least give you an idea of what kind of history previously successful applicants have.
PupCuff
Member
Whilst I don't think anyone is ever going to suggest a degree will do you any harm, what I would say is don't go into getting a degree because you think it will guarantee you a job in the rail industry. Plenty of folk have degrees these days, but plenty of folk alternatively have vocational qualifications and, indeed, good solid experience. Some TOCs seem to want degrees for pretty much every grade of staff, and others it's most common for staff *not* to have them. Indeed, degrees are horrendously expensive, will take up three to four years of your life, and you really need to have an interest for that subject in order to be able to get the most benefit from the course. That said, if you were unsuccessful at joining the railway initially a degree may allow you to work in that more specialised field when you need a job afterwards.
Some railway management roles may require you to meet a certain level of visual acuity, so it's worth bearing that in mind, though many won't. Any role in which you'd be carrying out Safety Critical work, or work which requires you to have PTS for going on the tracks, this is likely to be the case, though the visual requirement may not be as onerous as that for a driver.
Using the specific example of a Customer Service Manager as suggested upthread (eg Customer Experience Manager, Onboard Manager, Station Manager, whatever you want to call it at your TOC etc etc) these generally either come from a previous customer service management background (some TOCs prefer to take on externals with experience managing casual dining restaurants, for instance) or promoting them from the grades of staff they are managing (eg a Train Manager may go on to be promoted to an Onboard Manager). There's also some scope for lateral transfers from similar industry management roles and also outputs from Graduate Training Schemes etc, though places on these tend to be quite limited versus the demand. So for that, as an external, you'd either be looking to come in through a graduate scheme or with previous experience in a customer service management role.
Some railway management roles may require you to meet a certain level of visual acuity, so it's worth bearing that in mind, though many won't. Any role in which you'd be carrying out Safety Critical work, or work which requires you to have PTS for going on the tracks, this is likely to be the case, though the visual requirement may not be as onerous as that for a driver.
Using the specific example of a Customer Service Manager as suggested upthread (eg Customer Experience Manager, Onboard Manager, Station Manager, whatever you want to call it at your TOC etc etc) these generally either come from a previous customer service management background (some TOCs prefer to take on externals with experience managing casual dining restaurants, for instance) or promoting them from the grades of staff they are managing (eg a Train Manager may go on to be promoted to an Onboard Manager). There's also some scope for lateral transfers from similar industry management roles and also outputs from Graduate Training Schemes etc, though places on these tend to be quite limited versus the demand. So for that, as an external, you'd either be looking to come in through a graduate scheme or with previous experience in a customer service management role.
As others have alluded too degrees are pretty common nowadays, and in some cases can work against you if it's not relevant to the job your applying for, having no work experience to back it up with.
Professional qualifications supported by work experience in that field are also worth looking at. It shows a candidate has studied whilst learning on the job.
Professional qualifications supported by work experience in that field are also worth looking at. It shows a candidate has studied whilst learning on the job.
Romsey
Member
Getting into the admin / planning side of the industry at a starting grade and joining the Institute of Railway Operators and doing their training would be a very good way to gain knowledge. You will learn much more about how engineering works function as a band 5 or 6 crunching in worksites than you ever will being dropped in at a higher grade. That basic knowledge will help you throughout your career.
An IRO qualification shows you have applied yourself and have gained a wide appreciation of the industry. It's the modern version of doing your rules and regs and accountancy training evening classes 30 or 40 years ago. Although I didn't do any IRO exams, I helped a number of young colleagues with their homework pointing them at sources of information and alternative ways of considering problems. The Operating courses were detailed and quite searching for people who were not used to operating instructions and practices. It also provides the start for building your industry grapevine. ( Which is quicker and often better informed than anything official!)
If you're looking at a technical or design role in an engineering function an appropriate degree is absolutely needed. One youngster I know has a degree in Electronics and Electrical engineering and has ended up as a graduate apprentice on signalling systems with NR. Quite how that will work out I don't know, but I suspect it is a route to technical management.
On the other hand some sections had too many generalist degree holders put into supervisory jobs because they had degrees, not because they understood what they were meant to oversee. ( Ops Planning 15 years ago was a prime example. I think there are a few people on here who suffered the "Degree in origami and yoghurt" managers.)
Picking up on the health comments up thread, if you're colour blind, you will be barred from any roles which need time spent trackside or in signalling.
Good luck with whatever you try. Just remember that the people across the desk were in your position earlier in their careers. They are also nervous about interviews - trying to get the right person without sinking in the whole HR process.
An IRO qualification shows you have applied yourself and have gained a wide appreciation of the industry. It's the modern version of doing your rules and regs and accountancy training evening classes 30 or 40 years ago. Although I didn't do any IRO exams, I helped a number of young colleagues with their homework pointing them at sources of information and alternative ways of considering problems. The Operating courses were detailed and quite searching for people who were not used to operating instructions and practices. It also provides the start for building your industry grapevine. ( Which is quicker and often better informed than anything official!)
If you're looking at a technical or design role in an engineering function an appropriate degree is absolutely needed. One youngster I know has a degree in Electronics and Electrical engineering and has ended up as a graduate apprentice on signalling systems with NR. Quite how that will work out I don't know, but I suspect it is a route to technical management.
On the other hand some sections had too many generalist degree holders put into supervisory jobs because they had degrees, not because they understood what they were meant to oversee. ( Ops Planning 15 years ago was a prime example. I think there are a few people on here who suffered the "Degree in origami and yoghurt" managers.)
Picking up on the health comments up thread, if you're colour blind, you will be barred from any roles which need time spent trackside or in signalling.
Good luck with whatever you try. Just remember that the people across the desk were in your position earlier in their careers. They are also nervous about interviews - trying to get the right person without sinking in the whole HR process.
RJ
Established Member
The most important question is what kind of role or career path would you like in the industry?
When you decide, you can start doing the necessary work to get there and people can offer more tailored advice.
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RJ
Established Member
That's ok.
Go for a degree if that's an option for you. I can tell you a little bit about doing a Transport Management degree as I did one with a similar title.
The course content does help - some jobs applications ask what modules you studied and as you progress through your career and life, you find that things you learned crop up again.
The networking element shouldn't be underestimated. The course I did produced a fair few well respected people in the transport industry. Many have remained at various levels up to and including director. Should you reach a position where you need to recruit a team, you may find that coursemates you knew could well hold the suitable competencies when headhunting and vice versa. You'll also meet people at university from a variety of backgrounds and cultures.
The most valuable part of the course I found was the year in industry placement. Getting in with a transport operator or governing body gets you exposure to the inner workings of the industry. Not only is this another opportunity to network, but you will be able to have a clearer understanding of the organisational structure and see what career paths are available. Many people believe that the only entry level positions are customer service or driving roles and you'll be one step ahead with that broader view of what is actually within reach and where you can go. You can also try doing any experience days or holiday internships your degree entitles you to apply for.
Finally, completion of your degree with a good grade entitles you to apply for graduate schemes. Good schemes are designed to expose you to multiple parts of the business through a rotation of placements. Being able to showcase your skills and build a good reputation across the business helps you to progress quickly. This helps when life expenses ramp up over the years.
Don't let the debt argument stop you. The student loan actually works more like a tax. Your repayments are a fixed percentage of your earnings above a certain threshold and it doesn't show up on your credit report or anything like that.
Be ambitious. You may not need a degree to apply for some roles and the degree itself doesn't entitle you to much other than getting you through certain sifts. But having one can broaden your opportunities and rate of progression on the railways considerably if used correctly.
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70014IronDuke
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I largely agree with this. Someone in my family got a job with Network Rail with a degree in Comparative Literature (though it was a first, and at a good uni). Employers want to see if you can think and assess a challenge, weighing up multiple solutions, and if necessary, ditching your own for one proffered by another in the team.
I think a business (first) degree is vastly overrated. And I've had employers say the same to me. That's not the same as an MBA, of course. But even an MBA without practical experience is not the magical passport fo the job you want.
As one manager at one of the Big Four accountants said to me once: what we really like is someone with an engineering degree who has then worked 4-5 years in industry, and then takes an MBA. That's a great combination, and such people are usually very good.
70014IronDuke
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I think the best way to be noticed is to do a good, thorough job each and every time while praising your team, not stressing your own contribution.
Agreed. But nothing wrong with doing so via LinkedIn
70014IronDuke
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Agreed. But nothing wrong with doing so via LinkedIn
OK, fair point. I guess I'm just hyper-sensitive to the self-promoting PR types.
And yes, I confess I foolishly tried that myself when much younger. I probably came over as a right d**k though.
I’m not exactly a brown noser, for want of a better term, but sometimes promoting what you do will see you in good stead with the right people. Doing a good job is also a good way of getting noticed, but is often only in your current organisation and the hierarchy within your current role. LinkedIn is basically an electronic CV, available for all to see.
I'd endorse the idea of joining the IRO and doing their education courses. However you need to be aware that - especially on the degree course - this can involve a lot of additional work in your own time. This can be partiularly difficult if you end up on shift work. The education course is also an excellent networking opportunity in its own right, as you get to meet both your peers and senior managers within the industry.
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