I find with TfW there is a lag between getting the "Tough luck we've refused your claim but you can appeal" email, and the web site recognizing that it's reached that stage and giving me an "appeal" link.
So maybe try again in a bit?
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Delay Repay claims rejected
- Thread starter yorkie
- Start date
I find with TfW there is a lag between getting the "Tough luck we've refused your claim but you can appeal" email, and the web site recognizing that it's reached that stage and giving me an "appeal" link.
So maybe try again in a bit?
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Egg Centric
Established Member
Will shortly but meanwhile Hull Trains have accepted it albeit with the correct delay time which (I haven't checked but think) should be an impossibility if it actually had been their fault.
If they both had the same parent company I'd be "whatever" and just take it from Hull Trains but since they don't I suppose I need to both get HT to cancel it and EMR to take responsibility
. I suppose there would be nothing wrong in me adding my payment details to Hull Trains first though, just in case of future claims...
Haywain
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 20,095
If you are receiving the right amount why does it matter which company is paying?Will shortly but meanwhile Hull Trains have accepted it albeit with the correct delay time which (I haven't checked but think) should be an impossibility if it actually had been their fault.
If they both had the same parent company I'd be "whatever" and just take it from Hull Trains but since they don't I suppose I need to both get HT to cancel it and EMR to take responsibility
Egg Centric
Established Member
Because it's not within the rules. EMR are the ones who delayed me, not Hull Trains, and so they are the ones that should be paying.
It's especially important for me to stick to the rules because I enjoy trying to maximise delay repay within them; imo this gives me an extra responsibility to be whiter than white.
Kite159
Veteran Member
He always seems to have a habit of being delayed on nearly every trip it seems.
Haywain
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 20,095
Are there rules stating which company should pay you?
Did your connection from Hull Trains to EMR meet the minimum connection time?
Egg Centric
Established Member
That's an interesting "angels on pin head" type question - clearly there are rules about which company is responsible, but is that the same as which company should pay me?
Of course as I mentioned earlier there's no reason I can't currently add my bank details for future claims and I'm starting to tend towards doing this... and if they happened to pay well so be it...
Reasonably sure it didn't, but nevertheless I made it (and fwiw I was as usual trying to not meet it because of the afore mentioned recreational trying to maximise delay repay "hobby", e.g. strolling and taking lifts) so by the rules of the scheme they simply aren't liable. I don't think I can hang around on the platform and not get on the train because it doesn't meet the minimum connection time (it would also be very risky if I got it wrong)..
Hull Trains have now (incorrectly) passed my claim over to LNER rather than back to EMR as they should have done. Meanwhile, despite passing the claim to Hull trains initially, EMR have refunded £3.80 rather than the £77.70 that they should have.
As there is still a bit of time to run I'm going to see what LNER do before going back to EMR.
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Egg Centric
Established Member
Further Update:
Wow. Well onto customer services then...
Wow. Well onto customer services then...
Disappointingly derivative work by EMR. Much more interesting when they come up with a novel way of being stupid or incompetent.
Appeal it one more time, then ask for a deadlock letter, then onto the ombudsman.
Egg Centric
Established Member
Annoyingly or happily depending on ones perspective (I was hoping for some ombudsman fun but appreciate others have better things to do) it's now been sorted and approved...
trainophile
Established Member
Here's a funny one, buck passing at its finest. 16th April the 12:40 Hereford to New Street departed 20 late and arrived at BHM 14:37, however I had a long connection onto the 15:07 at New Street which I made easily, not least because it too was 15 late departing, although I'd have made it anyway. Arrived at Wigan NW 17 late, at 16:54 and headed to Wallgate to find the 17:07 to Southport cancelled. I'm sure 13 minutes counts as long enough to make the cross-road connection, which I did with ease. This was all on one through Advance ticket Hereford to Southport.
Had to wait for the 17:59 (dep 18:00) and finally arrived at Southport at 18:39, thus missing a whole of journey claim by a couple of minutes.
Put in a 30-59 minutes claim to Northern, who rejected it saying it was WMT's fault. Used the appeal option to explain that both my previous trains had allowed me to make my connections, and it was Northern who caused the delay by cancelling my final train. They have now rejected the appeal and forwarded the claim to WMT, who of course won't accept responsibility and neither should they.
I wouldn't bother but this time it's nearly £8 (50% of railcard discounted ticket price) so I wish to pursue it. Any suggestions?
Had to wait for the 17:59 (dep 18:00) and finally arrived at Southport at 18:39, thus missing a whole of journey claim by a couple of minutes.
Put in a 30-59 minutes claim to Northern, who rejected it saying it was WMT's fault. Used the appeal option to explain that both my previous trains had allowed me to make my connections, and it was Northern who caused the delay by cancelling my final train. They have now rejected the appeal and forwarded the claim to WMT, who of course won't accept responsibility and neither should they.
I wouldn't bother but this time it's nearly £8 (50% of railcard discounted ticket price) so I wish to pursue it. Any suggestions?
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
The minimum connection time is 11 minutes (by running it can be done in about 2).
Egg Centric
Established Member
nvm wrong connection, bu tstill doesn't apply for reason below...
trainophile
Established Member
But the WMT delay didn't cause a missed connection. If they look at the ticket times it's obvious that whereas I should have had 58 minutes to connect at New Street I actually "only" had 30 minutes. Given the minimum for BHM is 12 minutes they can't be held responsible for my eventually late arrival.
trainophile
Established Member
Sorry I seem to have caused some confusion - I should have said that the second train BHM-WGN was Avanti. They were delayed too but as stated I still had 13 minutes to make the connection to Wallgate. Had Northern not cancelled their 17:07 I wouldn't have a claim to fight.
Yes my final booked train (as shown on my ticket reservation slip) was the Northern 17:07 Wallgate to Southport. Nobody else's fault whatsoever as to the reason for my claim. Northern need to get a grip.
Egg Centric
Established Member
Out of interest, when you filled the form in did you give all 3 services you were scheduled to take? Very often they only ask about source and destination and make the intinerary up themselves...
trainophile
Established Member
Yes, they ask how many connections your journey comprised, and you fill in the (timetabled not actual) departure and arrival times for each leg.
Egg Centric
Established Member
Oh well, off to customer services with you then with a short and to the point email
Haywain
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 20,095
It's notclear from your posts where the fault should lie. Could you set out your planned itinerary and what actually happened to make things clearer?
trainophile
Established Member
Sure:
Depart Hereford 12:40 (actual 13:00)
Arrive New Street 14:09 (actual 14:37)
Depart New Street 15:07 (actual 15:22)
Arrive Wigan North Western 16:37 (actual 16:54)
Depart Wigan Wallgate 17:07 (actual 18:00)
Arrive Southport 17:41 (actual 18:39)
Depart Hereford 12:40 (actual 13:00)
Arrive New Street 14:09 (actual 14:37)
Depart New Street 15:07 (actual 15:22)
Arrive Wigan North Western 16:37 (actual 16:54)
Depart Wigan Wallgate 17:07 (actual 18:00)
Arrive Southport 17:41 (actual 18:39)
trainophile
Established Member
I've got a phone number for them via X, psyching myself up to call them. Probably tomorrow, don't like to mess up their Sunday!
From my experience, it seems TOCs generally don't care about what actually happened in the real world, but rather blame whichever TOC broke the first connection on the journey (judged by minimum connection times) assuming the train being connected on to was on time (even if it wasn't!).
Indeed delay repay is reality-blind in this way and it works more simply. But they’ve still made the wrong call here, have they not?
trainophile
Established Member
Well I haven't phoned yet. Given WMT should have received the forwarded claim by now I thought I'd wait and see what they make of it, and if they are as casual about accuracy as suggested above they just might pay up, not that they should have to. So chasing Northern at this point might further confuse things. I'll keep an eye on the 28 days deadline, and if I don't hear anything within a week I'll follow it up again with Northern.
trainophile
Established Member
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Update: email from WMR today, and sure enough they have "forwarded" (i.e. returned) my claim to Northern. I'm giving up on this one now, on the scale of things it's not worth the hassle for £8. Some you win, some you lose.
I've had a delay repay claim to WMR bounce back (rather than rejected) because "the journey details you have provided are incomplete. We need to see all legs of your journey entered on your claim under journey details, as stated on your ticket."
After double checking everything, my best guess is that the missing leg is a tube journey from London Liverpool St to London Euston. I have tried adding this to the system, but without success because WMR's system to enter journey details does not allow for tube journeys to be added. The submission system also does not appear to have a "free text" box anywhere for me to explain.
Does anybody have any suggestion on how to proceed?
After double checking everything, my best guess is that the missing leg is a tube journey from London Liverpool St to London Euston. I have tried adding this to the system, but without success because WMR's system to enter journey details does not allow for tube journeys to be added. The submission system also does not appear to have a "free text" box anywhere for me to explain.
Does anybody have any suggestion on how to proceed?