Delay Repay on split ticket with a connection

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Dibuzz, 14 Aug 2019.

  1. Dibuzz

    Dibuzz Member

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    Asking this one on behalf of a friend. She had 2 tickets, an advance single from Scarborough to Manchester and the unused return portion of an off peak return from Manchester to Earlestown. She was on the 20:44 Scarborough train and intended to change trains at Newton-le-Willows. Unfortunately, the train was stopped short at Manchester Victoria. After a lot of faffing, all passengers were put on a minibus. Long and short of it is, she got to Earlestown at 01:50, more than 2 hours after the scheduled journey time including the change of trains at Newton. Is she entitled to delay repay for the single ticket and the off peak return? Who does she claim from, Northern or TPE?
     
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  3. alistairlees

    alistairlees Established Member

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    She should claim from the TOC that caused the delay in the first place, in this case TPE.

    She is entitled to compensation based on the full value of the Advance single and half the value of the Off-Peak Return.

    Because the delay is greater than 2 hours she is entitled to 100% of the value of the described above to be provided as compensation. The split ticket part is not relevant, assuming she was planning a valid connection at Newton-le-Willows, and she was travelling on the train she was booked on for the Advance ticket.
     
  4. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    Your friend is entitled to delay repay for 100% of the value of the Advance single (this value kicks in for delays of 60 minutes or more) and 100% of cost of the Off Peak Return (this value kick in for delays of 120 minutes or more). She must have allowed the minimum connection time when planning to change trains. Transpennie Express do not always pay out the correct value when it comes to split tickets so she may need to respond to them to ask for any shortfall they do not pay out initially.
     
  5. trebor79

    trebor79 Established Member

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    Resurrecting a slightly old thread, but how is one meant to claim delay repay on split tickets using the online process provided by TCS?
    You are asked to input the ticket details, including the ticket reference numbers, but the system only asks for the details for one ticket, even if the start and end points you enter for it don't match the start and end points of the journey entered earlier in the process.
    Had this conundrum today, Attleborough to Sleaford splitting at Spalding. The Peterborough-Lincoln service was cancelled. Fortunately that meant BOTH journeys I held tickets for were subject to the same delay, so I just did 2 claims. Bit of a faff and it weirdly offered to use the ticket details for the first leg when I made the second claim but anyway it's all done.
    But what if a split was before the point at which the delay occurred (say for arguments argument's sake the split was at Ely in this case)? You're entitled to delay repay for the while journey, but there's no means of inputting all of the ticket details.
    Do you have to resort to a paper form or letter?
     
  6. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    If you booked using an accredited ticket splitting provider (e.g. Trainsplit, Loco2 etc), I'd forward the booking confirmation email to the relevant company, state your journey from your origin to your destination was X minutes late and state the amount you believe you are due. Include an image attachment showing all tickets. There can be absolutely no doubt it was one journey (simply using more than one ticket) and the company is unlikely to dispute this. You would also surely have the backing of the retailer in the unlikely event of a dispute.
     
  7. trebor79

    trebor79 Established Member

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    Ah, OK so don't use the TCS system and let the TOC do the legwork. Makes sense. Passengers are every strongly guided toward the TCS system, the implication being that is *the* way to claim. That benefits the TOC as it's a more automated and therefore cheaper process for them, and relatively user friendly, so I can see why they do that.
    I didn't use a splitting site on this occassion, bit that shouldn't matter from a compensation POV.
     
  8. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    There is no off peak return offered Earlestown - Manchester. Was it an off peak day return?
     
  9. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    It doesn't, but you're on your own and you will need to do the legwork*.

    Do not say:
    ...If you want a journey to be treated as one (singular) journey!

    In this case it didn't matter, but in other cases, such as the hypothetical example you gave, it will matter.

    * I have written some template letters before; a search should find them.
     
  10. maxbarnish

    maxbarnish Member

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    I recently had a delay repay situation using split tickets too - I submitted Train Split confirmation. The value was determined by the TOC on the basis of the sum of the individual tickets listed on the Train Split itinerary not on the total charged by Train Split. I think this was probably correct if annoying.
     
  11. BigCj34

    BigCj34 Member

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    Are you saying the commission charge by TrainSplit will not be reimbursed? The TOC are within their rights to not reimburse that.
     
  12. maxbarnish

    maxbarnish Member

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    This is what I'm referring to. I was unsure if Delay Repay is on the ticket cost or the journey cost
     
  13. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    That would be correct. But at 10% of the saving, with you keeping the other 90%, you'll be better off in nearly all cases.
    Total cost of all tickets for the journey.
     
  14. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Established Member

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    This is an interesting question because having done a claim the other day (on paper) with EMR I think I can see why the forms / process result in failures to appreciate two tickets are part of 'a journey' when the claim is made.

    Strangely, the EMR form is filled up with space to allows one form to be used for I think a claim for up to 6 journeys (maybe this is helpful if a claim is being made for eg a family and you are supposed to fill in each persons ticket in each box, but I'm not sure why you would otherwise be using one form to claim multiple tickets with really), but no real space on form to add any explanatory details of the trip. Apols is descrip is not clear but no pdf of paper form on line to illustrate this.

    Anyway, only info you fill in is date and departure time of train (not even how late you may wish to state you were, no doubt EMR staff just check this on their system to verify). So the form sort of lends itself to the idea of one ticket, one journey, A-B type thing.

    Trip concerned was a day return from Nottingham to Altrincham via Stockport, and no Day Rtn tickets to Altrincham but they do exist to Stockport, and of course Stockport - Altrincham local journey has its own Day Rtns so a simple split ticket there is obvious thing to do.

    With the rtn from Stockport delayed by c25 mins a claim has gone in.

    I'll wait and see if they automatically include the cost of the Altrincham to Stockport leg (train was on time, and also of course a different TOC) into the repay calculation.
     
  15. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    If you make it absolutely clear that you were delayed on your journey from Altrincham to Stockport, and your request is concise and unambiguous, I cannot see why they wouldn't give you Delay Repay compensation for your journey at the appropriate rate.

    I can only emphasise what I have said before about avoiding ambiguity, I would not say things like "the rtn from Stockport"; it would be fine to say that on your journey from Altrincham to Nottingham, you experienced a delay on the Stockport to Nottingham train.

    Remember to be:
    • clear
    • concise (ie. providing all necessary detail but not any unnecessary detail)
    • assertive
    • unambiguous
     
  16. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    I would go further and say that there should be no expectation of the Trainsplit fee being reimbursed. It is a charge for buying the cheaper tickets, not a part of the fare.
     
  17. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Established Member

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    Totally agree Yorkie - but absolutely no space on the EMR claim form (it may be different on line) to include any other details other than:
    Journey date, to and from locations, start time of journey from 1st station, price of ticket.

    So I suppose in a way, that creates an unambiguous set of info!
     
  18. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I'd type in the origin of my journey, the destination of my journey, the total sum of all tickets. I would include one photograph clearly showing all tickets

    If the form does not make it easy then I would forward my booking confirmation email (if I booked with an accredited split ticket supplier) and if I booked each one separately I woud type out my originally planned itinerary and the list of tickets held myself, in an email to customer services
     
  19. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Established Member

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    Yes, fair enough, and good advice - but I did it old skool

    All tickets bought at station ticket counter with split, before departure - itinerary on paper timetable picked up from leaflet rack (times of Northern connections on a bit of paper).

    Delay repay paper form collected from rack on arrival back at home station. Filled in in pen, tickets enclosed with form.

    Freepost Form posted in letter box at corner of my street next morning!
     
  20. trebor79

    trebor79 Established Member

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    The online form does not allow space for any explanatory text to be entered.
    My Spalding to Sleaford leg has been confirmed as a 60+ minute payout. The Attleborough to Spalding leg is being "assigned to one of our team for further quality checks". They got a bus to Spalding some time after the timetabled departure from Peterborough. I doubt it got there quickly enough to avoid a 60 minute delay but it's possible I suppose. No doubt I shall have to appeal the decision if it goes against me, which consists of filling in a free text entry.
     
  21. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    A rail replacement bus, using the ticket?

    Or did the ticket go unused and a service bus was caught?
     
  22. trebor79

    trebor79 Established Member

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    There was an announcement about 15 minutes after the train should have departed "Spalding passengers only please report to the information desk". I did, they were bussing people to Spalding as a replacement for the train. The chap behind the desk an I agreed I'd just end up waiting at Spalding for the next service ex-Peterborough anyway and so I stayed put.
    If the bus got to Spalding before 60 minutes delay they might put me into that tier for compensation. Which would be right on the face of it because it's a separate claim and there's now way to tell the system that the 2 claims are 1 journey.
     
  23. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    The correct thing to do is to out it in as one claim, stating what time you actually got to your destination.

    Did you complete your journey? If you abandoned it at Peterborough and had split tickets there, then only claim delay repay for the ticket(s) as far as Peterborough. A separate refund request would be sent to the retailer for the unused ticket.

    It sounds complicated; maybe it is complicated or maybe the way it has been described makes it sound complicated. Either way, my advice would be to keep it simple where possible, be clear and concise. Don't stop feed little bits of crucial information, but equally don't provide unnecessary extra information or contractions about the use of the word 'journey' as this will cause delay to the processing of your claim and/or may result in doubt regarding the validity of the claim.
     
  24. maxbarnish

    maxbarnish Member

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    I had one recently - successful if complex - where a 7-minute delay on a SWR train from Cranbrook to Exeter St Davids caused a missed connection onto a Cross Country service to Birmingham. To add to the complication, it was split ticketed with advances on the sections from Exeter. I had to get station manager to authorise onward travel. Further complication was that the station manager did not return to me the one ticket that had already been used, which meant I had no evidence of the leg of the journey that caused the delay. I had to email the claim in, but it was (surprisingly) accepted.

    Something else I noticed on my travels lately, was that the station manager role differs greatly by location. In Exeter St Davids, it's a customer facing role that among other things helps resolve issues about missed connections and replacement transport. Yet at Glasgow Central I was told it was exclusively a role about managing the station facilities. I had a minor issue at Glasgow Central recently about a Cross Country service, but no staff on station would help - ScotRail operate the 'domestic' ticket office - don't deal with anything going outside Scotland, and Virgin operate the Travel Centre which I was advised by a member of staff at gateline was for 'international services' - meaning to England I presume (not Eurostar!). Yet the Travel Centre had 'no authority' to deal with any issues relating to non-Virgin services. I'd hate to be there when a Cross Country is cancelled or started at Edinburgh. My minor issue I had to risk it and board as no staff would comment, and train manager was understanding so issue resolved.

    Split ticketing can lead to some complications with missed connections in practice so I think my point above is relevant to this discussion - and the customer experience of the issues we're discussing
     
  25. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Established Member

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    Would this be because Glasgow Central is a Network Rail managed station? So their staff would be the manager and they have no public (passenger related) role as they might see it.

    Of course the 2nd part of your point is exactly why many people seem to be in favour of 'nationalisation' because they think it would end all that sort of stuff - which is of course a product of splitting it all up not privatisation per se. What people would like (or think they would like) IMHO is 'unification'.
     
  26. trebor79

    trebor79 Established Member

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    But you can't do that on the TCS system. It just asks you to input your intended departure time for each leg, and then shows a pick list for you to choose the actual service you intended to (or did) travel on. I suppose in the background it knows whether these services were delayed and by how much.
    You then enter your ticket details, but there is no means of entering the multiple ticket details you'd need to for a split ticket.
    There is no way to add any narrative to the claim. At no point do you enter your arrival time.
    I completed the journey, 62 minutes late at destination.

    I think I've made it sound complicated by referring to the rail replacement bus between Peterborough and Spalding which was announced as for "Spalding passengers only" and that I did not travel on.
    It's dead simple really. Attleborough - Sleaford on a split ticket with the split at Spalding. 0833 Peterborough - Lincoln cancelled.
    The complication when claiming delay repay is the TCS solution being incapable of dealing properly with split tickets.
    You can't do that because it asks for various reference numbers off the tickets and I bet if you enter the sum of the tickets, computer is going to say no at some point as it will know that "the" ticket reference you entered wasn't of that value
    I'm not sure to whom you'd send that, as a relatively lay passenger. You are just pushed to the TCS system for delay repay.
     
  27. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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