Delay repay/refund for split ticket over multiple operators

[Birger90]

Hi all,

I am looking for advice for how to submit a delay repay after travelling on June 2nd. I originally had a split ticket advance from London to Scarborough via York. The London to York leg was run by LNER; the original train I was booked on did not run but I was able to travel on an alternative service and arrived at York 30 mins later than originally planned. However the York to Scarborough leg was ran by TransPennine and was cancelled completely, I had to complete by journey by taxi.

Should I claim delay repay with LNER for the London to York leg and claim for a full refund with Transpennine for the York to Scarborough leg? Both ask for my booking ref which would be the same as both legs were booked at the same time. Or just claim with LNER for the full journey? Bit lost on what to do.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Watershed]

Welcome to the forum.

What were the tickets you held? London to York and York to Scarborough?

It would be helpful if you could set out the date and times at which you had booked to travel, and the actual trains you ended up taking on the day.

Were there any later TPE services available from York to Scarborough, and did TPE arrange the taxi or did you do this on your own back? Did you speak to TPE at all?

You are certainly entitled to get something back here, but the exact amount depends on the circumstances, hence the questions above.

 

[AlterEgo]

Your claim is with LNER for the full journey, attach all your tickets with the claim online.

As for the taxi claim you are best off following @Watershed's advice and giving further details.

 

[Birger90]

Welcome to the forum.

What were the tickets you held? London to York and York to Scarborough?

It would be helpful if you could set out the date and times at which you had booked to travel, and the actual trains you ended up taking on the day.

Were there any later TPE services available from York to Scarborough, and did TPE arrange the taxi or did you do this on your own back? Did you speak to TPE at all?

You are certainly entitled to get something back here, but the exact amount depends on the circumstances, hence the questions above.

Thanks!

Having just double checked my route against my original itinerary I doubt I am eligible for a delay repay for the LNER part even though my original service was cancelled.
The tickets I held were London to Retford (11:06) with LNER, Retford to York (12:50) with LNER (arriving 13:30) and York to Scarborough (14:03) with TPE.

As it was a strike day, LNER were running an amended timetable and the 11.06 didn't run, so I took the 11:30 service from London KGX to York and arrived in York at 13:35, so probably not actually eligible for a delay repay here.

However the York to Scarborough leg of the journey with TPE was cancelled and no trains were running this journey for the entire day. I did have advance notice of this and planned to take a bus once I arrived to York (which happened to break down). I didn't speak to TPE at all and arranged the taxi off my own back on the spur of the moment.

Thanks a lot for your help.

 

[crablab]

I did have advance notice of this and planned to take a bus once I arrived to York (which happened to break down). I didn't speak to TPE at all and arranged the taxi off my own back on the spur of the moment.

Did you have "advance notice" of the cancelled trains before you booked your tickets though? Or did you book your tickets against the itinerary detailed above before the trains to Scarborough were removed from the timetable, and subsequently become aware of the cancellation?

 

[AlterEgo]

Did you have "advance notice" of the cancelled trains before you booked your tickets though? Or did you book your tickets against the itinerary detailed above before the trains to Scarborough were removed from the timetable, and subsequently become aware of the cancellation?

This is not relevant for the purposes of delay repay, which is now calculated against the published timetable of the day.

 

[crablab]

This is not relevant for the purposes of delay repay, which is now calculated against the published timetable of the day.

For delay repay, agreed. For a refund of the unused York to Scarborough ticket, no. Section 30.1 of NRCoT (abridged):

You may return an unused Ticket to the original retailer or Train Company from whom it was purchased, where you will be given a full refund with no administration fee charged, if you decide not to travel because the train you intended to use is:
• cancelled, or
• delayed, or
• rescheduled from that in Published Timetable of the Day after you have purchased a Ticket or Tickets, or
• your reservation will not be honoured

 

[AlterEgo]

For delay repay, agreed. For a refund of the unused York to Scarborough ticket, no. Section 30.1 of NRCoT (abridged):

But refunding that would be prejudicial to the OP’s claim for the taxi, which no doubt far exceeds the cost of their rail ticket.

 

[tsman]

But refunding that would be prejudicial to the OP’s claim for the taxi, which no doubt far exceeds the cost of their rail ticket

I can't imagine any TOC paying out for a taxi if a whole day's services were cancelled due to industrial action? (Putting aside the question of whether or not they should)

 

[AlterEgo]

I can't imagine any TOC paying out for a taxi if a whole day's services were cancelled due to industrial action? (Putting aside the question of whether or not they should)

It will be difficult to claim if the taxi, as stated, was organised on the spur of the moment and without allowing the train company to provide an alternative. But you do need to try, I think, and you need to retain the ticket and not refund it if you want to do so.

 

[Birger90]

Did you have "advance notice" of the cancelled trains before you booked your tickets though? Or did you book your tickets against the itinerary detailed above before the trains to Scarborough were removed from the timetable, and subsequently become aware of the cancellation?

No, I booked the tickets well in advance of notice of the industrial action.

I'm not looking to claim extra on the taxi, just a hoping for a full refund for the value of the York-Scarborough leg of the journey. I'm more just confused as to which ToC to claim the refund for and if I should use delay repay or claim a full refund.

Thanks.

 

[Haywain]

ust a hoping for a full refund for the value of the York-Scarborough leg of the journey. I'm more just confused as to which ToC to claim the refund for and if I should use delay repay or claim a full refund.

If you wish to obtain a refund of the unused ticket you claim a refund from the retailer who sold you the ticket. Delay Repay is compensation for a completed journey and is claimed from the operator who first delayed you.

 

[Watershed]

This is not relevant for the purposes of delay repay, which is now calculated against the published timetable of the day.

Well, yes, that's what the TOCs claim - although it's highly doubtful whether that limitation is legally effective. In any event, the crucial question here is how late the OP arrived at Scarborough; this will determine whether they may have additional delay compensation rights (e.g. under the PRO, which can't be contracted out of).

Separately from that, TPE were obliged to provide them with alternative transport to Scarborough. The fact that it was a strike date and TPE decided not to operate any services is irrelevant - this doesn't get them out of their obligation to get the OP from A to B. The problem here is that the OP needs to have asked TPE for such alternative transport to be arranged; TPE might have arranged ticket acceptance with Coastliner buses to Scarborough, for instance. Certainly I think the OP would struggle to recover the cost of a taxi when bus services were available.

If the OP doesn't want to proceed down the road of claiming back their alternative transport costs, and any Delay Repay or compensation they may be due, they can instead choose to get a full refund on their York-Scarborough ticket. This would be claimed from the retailer they used to buy this ticket.

 

[crablab]

Well, yes, that's what the TOCs claim - although it's highly doubtful whether that limitation is legally effective.

I agree. The effect of the terms in NRCoT is essentially that the railway will sell you a ticket against an itinerary, for which you might reasonably make arrangements and plans on the expectation that the railway will transport you given that itinerary, but the railway will be under no obligation to actually deliver that itinerary or offer you any compensation for failure to deliver that itinerary _unless_ they modify (or fail to deliver) the timetable on the day of travel. Any modifications prior to that date are at their discretion, and if you choose to still travel (because you have reasonably made arrangements) the railway will not offer you any compensation for the change to your arrangements, because they gave notice of the change.

Whether that's an unfair practice in the context of the CRA I don't know, but I doubt it'll ever be tested in court.

 

[Watershed]

I agree. The effect of the terms in NRCoT is essentially that the railway will sell you a ticket against an itinerary, for which you might reasonably make arrangements and plans on the expectation that the railway will transport you given that itinerary, but the railway will be under no obligation to actually deliver that itinerary or offer you any compensation for failure to deliver that itinerary _unless_ they modify (or fail to deliver) the timetable on the day of travel. Any modifications prior to that date are at their discretion, and if you choose to still travel (because you have reasonably made arrangements) the railway will not offer you any compensation for the change to your arrangements, because they gave notice of the change.

Whether that's an unfair practice in the context of the CRA I don't know, but I doubt it'll ever be tested in court.

And the problem isn't just that they purport they can arbitratily change the timetable after purchase.

It's that they claim they can do so without notification ("it's available if you check our website [that constantly changes]" doesn't qualify as any sort of notice), without you agreeing to any change, and at just 2-26 hours' notice.

Even Ryanair and WizzAir don't try that on. The railway really is plumbing to new depths with this nonsense.

 

[crablab]

It's that they claim they can do so without notification ... without you agreeing to any change, and at just 2-26 hours' notice.

Quite.